Ok DAZZ!!! lets go there again, here`s the Texel rating and yes again as you can clearly see the Nacra Inter 17 jib smokes your shitbot Taipan 4.9 and that is with the small spinaker with the larger F18 spinaker factory fitted that rating would obviously go down some, as the I17 can take the extra power the Trypan 4.9 would just go nose in. Now take u ball and piss of, this is done!!!!


Texel Rating (TR) 2009 for trampoline catamarans
31-aug-09
type Crew corr. one-off LOA RL WS WS MSAM VLM MSAG VLG
no spi incl. spi No CB ** excl spi incl spi
a-cat 1 101 95 ** 5,49 5,49 75 13,94 8,83
a-cat large spi 1 101 94 ** 5,49 5,49 75 13,94 8,83
bim 16 sp (1) 1 109 104 ** 4,94 4,94 110 14,87 8,13
blade F16 (1) 1 106 101 5 5 104 15,00 8,10
catapult 1 127 117 3 5 5 100 10,00 6,50
coolcat 15(1) 1 124 118 3 4,85 4,75 127 12,50 7,50
dart 15 1 136 127 3 4,51 4,39 120 10,20 6,30
dart 15 s 1 127 122 3 4,51 4,39 123 10,20 6,30 2,00 3,11
dart 15 sting 1 121 117 3 4,51 4,39 126 11,34 7,17 2,46 3,68
dart 15 sting no jib 1 131 123 3 4,51 4,39 126 11,34 7,17
dart 18(1) 1 121 113 3 5,46 5,3 137 12,66 7,55
Formula 16 (1) 1 106 101 5 5 104 15,00 8,10
freestyle 474 1 118 113 4,74 4,74 135 13,90 7,70
hawke surfcat 1 127 122 3 3,96 3,76 100 9,36 6,50 2,76 5,00
hobie 13 1 140 131 3 3,91 3,89 97 6,56 5,96 1,92 3,07
hobie 14 1 135 126 3 4,23 4,19 109 11,12 5,95
hobie 14s 1 123 119 3 4,23 4,19 112 11,12 5,95 2,62 3,54
hobie 17 1 118 111 3 5,2 5,14 150 14,76 7,93
hobie 17s 1 107 104 3 5,2 5,14 153 14,76 7,93 4,10 4,86
hobie 18 form.(1) 1 111 106 5,52 5,46 183 17,28 8,27
hobie FX one 1 112 106 5,23 5,23 149 14,91 8,03
m18 1 99 95 ** 5,45 5,435 78 15,13 8,93
maricat 1 135 127 3 4,3 4,1 115 11,00 6,50
merricat 1 138 128 3 3,84 3,7 75 8,60 6,00
nacra 16vm 1 117 110 5,04 4,92 147 14,00 8,20
Nacra 18m2 1 104 100 ** 5,48 5,48 162 17,83 9,48
nacra 4.5 (1) 1 124 119 3 4,56 4,54 139 13,35 7,60
nacra 4.5-1 jib 1 114 111 3 4,56 4,54 142 13,35 7,60 3,58 4,64
nacra 5.5 sl (1) 1 111 106 5,49 5,48 173 16,26 8,44
nacra 500 (1) 1 120 113 3 5,07 5,05 147 13,83 7,74
nacra blast (1) 1 125 118 3 ** 4,82 4,82 147 13,57 7,05
nacra blast jib (1) 1 114 111 3 ** 4,82 4,82 150 13,57 7,05 3,26 4,65
nacra inter 17 1 116 109 5,24 5,23 155 13,68 8,15
nacra inter 17 jib 1 107 102 5,24 5,23 158 13,68 8,15 3,44 5,02
nacra inter 17R 1 109 103 ** 5,24 5,23 151 16,44 8,53
nacra inter17 XL 1 113 107 ** 5,24 5,23 155 15,25 8,05
Nacra F17 1 111 105 ** 5,24 5,23 155 15,27 8,72
newcat 12 1 141 131 3 3,5 3,45 70 6,94 4,79 1,83 3,34
paper tiger 1 135 125 4,27 4,1 100 9,30 6,00
piranha 15 1 125 118 3 4,66 4,64 125 12,51 7,55
pixie 1 126 121 3 4,3 4,1 100 8,50 6,00 3,00 4,50
prindle 15 1 125 118 3 4,56 4,47 118 13,02 6,93
prindle 15s 1 116 112 3 4,56 4,47 121 13,02 6,93 2,63 3,78
seaspray 15 1 122 118 4,57 4,4 130 9,90 6,07 3,00 4,00
shadow 1 114 110 ** 4,8 4,78 101 12,79 7,42
speedycat (1) 1 124 118 3 4,35 4,35 80 8,30 5,60 2,70 3,60
stealth F16 (1) 1 106 101 5 5 104 15,00 8,10
supercat 15 1 120 115 3 4,65 4,5 136 15,86 7,42
supercat 18 sp. 1 104 100 5,8 5,7 188 19,23 10,00
taipan 4.9 (1) 1 108 102 4,95 4,95 97 14,58 8,02
topcat k3 jib 1 112 108 3 ** 4,91 4,84 147 15,10 7,38 3,29 4,15
topcat F(1) 1 127 120 3 4,77 4,55 121 12,71 6,60
topcat k 2 (1) 1 117 111 3 5,18 5,07 160 16,20 8,00
topcat K3 (1) 1 120 114 3 4,91 4,84 144 15,10 7,38
viper (1) 1 109 103 5 5 126 15,00 8,10 5,64
windrush 14 1 130 122 3 4,3 4,2 100 11,49 6,45
windrush 14 ss 1 120 116 3 4,3 4,2 105 11,49 6,45 2,68 3,99
aesticat 530 2 122 115 3 5,3 5,2 160 12,00 7,70 4,00 4,00
bim 16 sp (2) 2 118 109 ** 4,94 4,94 110 14,87 8,13
Bim Javelin F18 HT 2 104 98 5,5 5,5 130 20,00 10,30
bim 20 speciaal 2007 2 104 98 ** 6,1 6 175 21,04 9,69
blade F16 (2) 2 106 102 5 5 107 15,00 8,10 3,70 5,64
b-klasse 2 103 97 ** 6,01 5,96 182 16,55 8,72 5,20 5,52
capricorn F18 2 106 101 5,52 5,52 180 17,00 8,60 4,15 5,50
cirrus ocean 2 111 106 ** 5,5 5,5 177 14,37 8,05 4,26 5,36
Cobra 5m 2 111 104 4,97 4,96 94 14,04 6,87 3,36 3,87
Texel Rating
(default)
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This conclusion is actually based on a faulty reading of the Texel ratings listing.

You compare the sloop rigged F17 that is singlehanded with a cat-rigged Taipan 4.9 that is also sailed 1-up. The texel listing does not however list the rating for the truly comparable Taipan 4.9 sloop being sailing solo. If the rating rating is calculated using the Texel calculator feature for custom boats then the Taipan 4.9 sloop is rated faster then the F17 sloop.

We have got to compare apples to apples.

The F17 does indeed provide better pre-pitchpole control then the classic Taipan 4.9 however, that is true. The evolution of the Taipan design was halted by its One-Design rules and due to its early establishment back in 1987, it could not gain from the 90's era experience in hull design, sails or production methods. The F17 obviously could. A better comparison is to be made with the new designs of the F16 class as these are at their core a restarted evolution of the basic Taipan 4.9 setup.

Alle are excellent designs though.

Regards,

Wouter

Bad luck there Devon... smoked again

http://www.kittosdevonhams.com/otherhams.php

or should I say Smokie?

But that is the F17, not the inter 17??????
Inter is lighter, has the F18 spinnaker and will be with wings soon.....

That may be, but the Inter 17 also has a smaller mainsail then the F17. You gain some by being lighter but loose some by having a smaller mainsail. In the end of the day, the Inter 17 is still rated slower; although by a small amount.

Wouter

I can see where you're coming from Wouter, but the Inter never came with an F18 spinnaker, so I can see where Devon is coming from also.
The Inter/F17 class in Australia is becoming a Nacra development class, they do change them alot here, now they are going to fit wings onto them.
To the best of my knowledge, Devon is the only one racing an Inter17 in Australia, but Nacra Australia has sold 3 X F17s recently so the class is growing. We will all know soon enough the answer to the equation.
F17>/<F16.

The two boats are close enough overall to race first in wins in my opinion. Sailor skill being the only meaningful differentiator. It is very hard to witness a 2% rating difference on the course in real life.

Wouter

There in lies the basic problem with the bris cat center... they keep changing the boats! in all "thier" designs ie nacra 14sq 16sq 5.0 5.8 there are different lay ups of the boat producing radically different stiffness and hull weights. even the spars and foils have undergone change so older boats are completely different to the newer ones.

when you go racing on them you are not on a level playing field at all.

the only nacra I would contemplate is an infusion as they have to measure, all the rest are a waste of time.

Is that why all the "old" 5.8s win the regattas?
Don't generalise here, it's only the F17 that they are playing with.

A bit like me buying an F16 in FNQ.....It would be a waste of time. There isn't an F16 at any of our local clubs, i'm not sure if you would find any north of Bundy (BTW we are 1700klms north of brisbane) , plenty of nacras though........ I suppose the local dealer looks after everyone very well otherwise we'd all be sailing something else, possibly F16's. Briscat come to our regattas 3400klms return trip for them, Nacra mini regatta P. Douglas, May Day Regatta Tinaroo, Mission Beach Regatta mission beach. They are willing to support us, so we are happy to support them. Darryl came up to demo his F14, one of two, the only other to my knowledge that supports us is Hobie. Mal Gray from Hobie is coming to Cairns for a Hobie 16 training camp. No F16 support, Where are they???? No demos, nothing. Why would we get into a class that couldn't care less if we exist or not. It's easy for all you southerners to slag us off, you get all the support you need.
Slag Nacra all you like, I suppose you'd do the same to Hobie. Put your F16 up on your pedestal, we are all different and have different wants/needs from our boats. If they update old boats, that's great, guys can still buy a cheap one and update to suit their budget, and as the 5.8s have shown, it is successful to do so and cost effective.
If they want to develop the F17 and combine the inters, all the better.
Why do you and Wouter even come here? you have the F16 forum, do you have to chip at us to make yourselves feel better?
I stretch an invitation to all F16 sailors to join us for our May day Regatta, we had an 18 foot skiff last year, the F18's came, Tornados. Come up and show us your stuff. You can even race Devon on the Inter 17 to see which is faster. We have State, National and World Champion sailors, Angus Macgregor won Junoir Male athlete of the year with the sporting wheelies.
It is on 1st-3rd of May
http://tinaroo.yachting.org.au/
Enjoy,
FNQ Engineer

Ehhh, right.

I posted in this thread as I'm also an former Texel rating official and I saw a few false statements regarding the Texel ratings that were best corrected.

I'm sorry if that pisses you off.

With regard to support. I'm glad that you get that from your local Nacra and Hobie agents. Honestly, the F16 class is structured differently; here the class members are also the support structure. Someone locally makes this class happen (and this did happen succesfully at many places around the world) and the fleet doesn't dependent on commericial agents to do the job for them. The specs of the F16 boats demand such independence or we too would weight the same as a Hobie 16 and cost as much as a new F18.

Personally, I feel the Aussie version of the Inter 17 is a nice boat. I don't like the EU version (far to slow) and respect the US version (F17) because the latter is fast modern design.

Regards,

Wouter

I hear you Wouter, but there's no interest for the F16 here in FNQ, why???? I'm at a Loss to explain other than the aforementioned reasons. I believe that the factories that manufacture the F16s are based in Victoria (Victorians generally have a low opinion of Queenslanders) and South Australia. I did speak to one F16 sailor, and was on my way to owning one at one stage until I had a sail of the Inter17.
Since then it has been a case of trying to build my cat sailing skills and I'm now at the point of starting to learn Spinnakers. I have all the theory done and locked in the skull. But as you'd be well aware, theory is theory, practical application is another thing.
If you ever come to Australia, you are welcome to stay here, I have a spare room, and you can have a sail of Devons boat. I have a new Nacra coming also, but not of the Inters calibre.
Oh BTW, Corrections don't piss me off at all, I've only really started to see the difference between the F/I17, previous to this thread, i was of the belief that they were one and the same boat. We do value your opinion and I must apologise to you for the rant, because you have only posted quality information in our section. And for that i Thank you.
Eng

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate that.

Best winds to you and lots of enjoyment with your new boat.

Regards,

Wouter

I think the F17 is a fantastic boat, that's why i bought one... should be taking delivery in the next week or so from Nacra Australia.... Let's not forget that the boat was originally designed here by Roscoe... IT took the big boys to recycle it and spit it back out with a slightly altered rig but essentially the same thing... Hmmm makes me wonder, we had it right all along....

try living in Indo mate....


but I know what you mean, in fact the NACRA guys in QLD are pretty good, they helped us import a number of boats into Thailand a couple of years back.

I love FNQ, lived there half my life (moving back next year) but you can hardly call it a progressive society. The Formula rule boats (16s) will come, but it might take 10yrs

Import a boat to AUS? There's so many fantastic boats down there it's a bit like importing sand to the beach.

But joking aside where did they send the mold's (US? EUR?)and what did the big boys do exactly?

Also does anyone know if all F17's have the same hull shape and weight or has the hull been modified over time?

Thanks.

They sent the moulds to US mate, but I think they changed the hulls slightly (less rocker) and the F is a bit heavier than the Inter.
The moulds could be near you somewhere now.....

Hi Guys,
Sorry to disappoint you BUT, we had a boat from the original moulds beside my new one at the factory, the changes are very minor indeed;
1. Bow point "slightly" more rounded.
2. Hulls canted 4 degrees.
3. Deck mould/inserts most likely off the Inter 18.
4. Mast straight off the Infusion.... Yes the rig is obviously different....

In all other respects the hulls are identical! They have thrown the new boards and rudders on the boat... Again, probably to avoid "manufacturing copyright"....

The rumour that the rocker was changed was probably started by a vested interest in the O/S arena to dick Roscoe out of hard earned $$$...?

Yes, I support Roscoe, but i'm also a realist...

Have a nice day, I'm going sailing!!!
Cheers,
HooHooHoo

So why would somebody want to import a boat when the local version seems to not only cheaper (less import duties) but also it's lighter and therefor more desirable. Is there some point that I'm missing?

Also is the newer version easier to right with the f18 mast? thanks