| Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20 #209026 04/21/10 03:14 AM 04/21/10 03:14 AM |
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 44 The Netherlands mbalhuizen OP
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Posts: 44 The Netherlands | I am looking for guidelines in the Loose & Co. measured tension setting on my diamond stays on Inter20 alu mast. I have now set to 35 (= average wind settings?) that I got from the tuning guide.
More wind, more tension, and if so how much more would I use? Is there some sort of reference table around?
Additional setting: (We weight 160 kg (= 353lbs?), I have spreader set to approx 4.5 cm). Still figuring mast rake, bridle - half way rudder?
Any help, experience, links to info etc. is appreciated
Tx all!
Last edited by mbalhuizen; 04/21/10 03:41 AM.
Martijn Balhuizen I20-The Netherlands
| | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: mbalhuizen]
#209035 04/21/10 08:08 AM 04/21/10 08:08 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | I think your charting fairly new territory here with the aluminum rig. Please keep us updated on your findings. Wish I could help.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#209071 04/21/10 01:34 PM 04/21/10 01:34 PM |
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,121 Eastern NC, USA tshan
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Posts: 1,121 Eastern NC, USA | Didn't the guys in Singapore document some wingmast settings on a blog? Seems like it had posts abt cats, motorcycles and all kinds of stuff..... the author used to be fairly active here.... am I making this $%#@ up?
Tom | | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: tshan]
#209082 04/21/10 03:06 PM 04/21/10 03:06 PM | MarkMT
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Unregistered | | | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: ]
#209091 04/21/10 04:32 PM 04/21/10 04:32 PM |
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 932 Solomon's Island, MD samc99us
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Posts: 932 Solomon's Island, MD | I THINK, the best starting point is going to be to hoist the main and get the mast curve to fit the luff of the main through a combination of diamond wire tension and spreader rake. Are you running a double spreader rig with single or double diamond wires?
Most of the N20 tuning guides are for the carbon mast; we don't go much above 42 on the Loos gauge on the carbon mast. I'm not saying the aluminum will bust when you go higher than this, but for right now (until someone who's done it chimes in), I would stay below this value.
Scorpion F18
| | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: ]
#209092 04/21/10 04:34 PM 04/21/10 04:34 PM |
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,121 Eastern NC, USA tshan
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Posts: 1,121 Eastern NC, USA | Ahh ... I stand corrected. Apologize or the rabbit trail. TVS gets mentioned here
Tom | | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: samc99us]
#209106 04/21/10 07:10 PM 04/21/10 07:10 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | I sure wish you guys would boil down your tension readings to lbs using the table on the gauge. It would make the "brand / type" of gauge a non-issue (at least within the accuracy of the gauge).
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: Jake]
#209109 04/21/10 08:05 PM 04/21/10 08:05 PM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | I sure wish you guys would boil down your tension readings to lbs using the table on the gauge. It would make the "brand / type" of gauge a non-issue (at least within the accuracy of the gauge). Amen. There's at least 3 or 4 different gauges. Even ones of the same model vary.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: TeamChums]
#209116 04/21/10 08:28 PM 04/21/10 08:28 PM |
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,490 On the Water P.M.
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Posts: 2,490 On the Water | You could talk to Mark Smith, since he has spent some time tuning the rig, and could probably get you in the ball park . . .
Philip USA #1006 | | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#209129 04/21/10 10:12 PM 04/21/10 10:12 PM |
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 932 Solomon's Island, MD samc99us
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Posts: 932 Solomon's Island, MD | I sure wish you guys would boil down your tension readings to lbs using the table on the gauge. It would make the "brand / type" of gauge a non-issue (at least within the accuracy of the gauge). Amen. There's at least 3 or 4 different gauges. Even ones of the same model vary. I agree and I apologize for using the spring scale numbers instead of the conversion to lbs...my scale happens to be 2 hours away so this makes things a little difficult. Also, arguably a bigger problem is the variance between one scale and another OF THE SAME TYPE. This problem is so bad the Olympic sailors use 3 Loos Gauges and average them; then they all wised up and bought a more accurate and precise digital scale, at the tune of $300+. Best bet is to talk to someone whose done it before, which is no one in this thread to MY KNOWLEDGE. Another good starting point is an infusion sailor since they use the same mast section AFAIK. Along these notes, we seriously need a good tuning guide for the N20. Of the three I've seen, only the factory one is concise but it is very conservative and all of them are several years old. Maybe nothings really changed, but I'm sure there are better methods to obtaining a fast boat.
Last edited by samc99us; 04/21/10 10:16 PM.
Scorpion F18
| | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: samc99us]
#209175 04/22/10 10:01 AM 04/22/10 10:01 AM |
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 44 The Netherlands mbalhuizen OP
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Posts: 44 The Netherlands | @all: tx for reactions and info.
fwiw:
I have been sailing in Aruba (Carribean) we had 32knots wind, and used 41 on scale Loose & Co. (the expensive one with the two weels - sorry no conversion lbs at the moment. That number was advised by Sander Pols who we sailed with. Sanders is a fine person (he sails really well, and is very friendly). He is involved with Nacra Europe as one of the owners. As first timers on this Heineken regatta we were offered lots of help and advice.
(yes, that 32 knots was way to much for us, broke spipole twice, lots of other damage to ourselfe and gear ;-) and had the wildest ride of our lives. Never actually raised the spi. At least we had off-shore wind, or we would not have lived to tell ;-)) It was a learning experience, to put it mildly.
I guess I would start at 35 at 20knots, and work upwards in increments of 2, hoping not to reach 41 again.
>>I THINK, the best starting point is going to be to hoist the main and get the mast curve to fit the luff of the main through a combination of diamond wire tension and spreader rake. Are you running a double spreader rig with single or double diamond wires?
Yes, that is a good idea, will try that. We are running a single spreader with single wires, like described in the Singapore threads offered by MikeMT (tx for those).
Tx for info on blogs, will start reading.
Last edited by mbalhuizen; 04/22/10 10:01 AM.
Martijn Balhuizen I20-The Netherlands
| | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: wildtsail]
#209184 04/22/10 10:42 AM 04/22/10 10:42 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 606 League City, TX flumpmaster
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Posts: 606 League City, TX | Mbalhizen... Are you talking about an infusion mast? With the new mast base it is essential to carry a wrench on the water so you can adjust per conditions on the water. In case anyone is wondering how you do this, you set up the boat on shore (including correct stay tension for conditions and adjust the mast to various loos gauge settings, counting the quater turns on the nut as you go. Then when you are out on the water you keep a running count up and down on the nut as you adjust it between races to stay within the upper and lower limits. Like card counting - but easier... Chris. | | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: flumpmaster]
#209185 04/22/10 10:53 AM 04/22/10 10:53 AM |
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 976 France pepin
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Posts: 976 France | Hu? What about F18 class rule C.9.6: STANDING RIGGING (a) It is NOT permitted to adjust: mast rake, tension of standing rigging, angle or length of spreaders or diamond wire tension.
Last edited by pepin; 04/22/10 10:58 AM. Reason: I got it, the important point is the "between races" bit. Ignore this message :)
| | | Re: Loos & Co. tension guides Inter20
[Re: pepin]
#209188 04/22/10 11:18 AM 04/22/10 11:18 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | Yes Pepin technically you are correct, but the new rules weren't released to us until two days ago (Tuesday). In Chris's defense the old rule had the 'while racing' verbiage. And while we are on the subject and before you drop some coin on the new Velocitek devices you probably want to look at rule C.5.1.b.3 2010 F18 Rules
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
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