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Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: DennisMe] #213669
06/13/10 09:07 AM
06/13/10 09:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,074
Northfield,NH USA
bullswan Offline
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bullswan  Offline
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Northfield,NH USA
OKAY, so why aren't you living in the yurt in Saskatchewan??
What is stopping you? My guess is what you are saying is that you want THE REST OF US ALSO living in a yurt in Saskatchewan. And that's where I part company with your thinking. IF you want to go, GO. But leave me out of your vision of what the world should look like. Looking around my environment, I'm pretty happy with all the things I've got and how they operate.

In Canada, (the utopia of the north) IF they are required to drill duplicate wells, I can't imagine the added cost of production. Seems ridiculus to have that type of failsafe. But I'm not doubting the regulation. Canada has been poorly administered for years and years and all you need to do is view their healthcare system to see what effect the liberals have had on that country.

NOBODY that I'm hearing is blaming President Obama for the A-C-C-I-D-E-N-T. Did President Obama try to get stricter restrictions through? I don't think so. To say he wouldn't have been able to because of Republican opposition is downright ignorant of the facts. HE OWNS THE CONGRESS. HE CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS. EVER HEAR OF A SUPER-MAJORITY?

Finally, I am worried about your warped view of the current economic situation. What you seem to be saying is that we AMERICANS refuse to pay for anything. Do you not pay taxes? I do. Lots of them. Quarterly I send the equivilent of 1/2 a new BMW to the US TREASURY. What your liberal politicians choose to buy with those taxes (and plenty more they borrow from the Japanese and Chinese) is where your anger should be pointed. We have a 13 trillion dollar deficit. Clearly we are spending money. Money we don't have.


The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. - George Will
"It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: DennisMe] #213670
06/13/10 09:08 AM
06/13/10 09:08 AM

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andrewscott
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again this was more conceptual that actual... the POINT was:

when we went to $4 and $5 gal the desire / demand for more fuel efficiency, reduction in use, hybrids. demand for cleaner energy (wind and solar) and the spur of invention or at least attempts was great. 2 years later.. it's either completely gone, or just complete gone from the forefront of the public mind


I agreed that 10 was to steep and said ok $6/gal.

i lived in europe for 4 years, and even 20 years ago the cost for fuel was many many many times greater than in the usa. that didnt seem to destroy their economy.

and yes, this is JUST LIKE suggesting everyone should get AIDS... great metaphor ..

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: ] #213677
06/13/10 10:01 AM
06/13/10 10:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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Andrew: We burn a lot of gas. $3.50/gallon would do it.

The first thing you have to do is stop giving BS and the other Harkonnens a voice. Put him, and the others like him, on ignore and then the rest of us might have a chance at a rational discussion.

I20: Stand your ground! All is not lost!

I was looking at pictures of the oil on Alabama beaches this morning. If Al. passed an emergency law requiring BP retailers to buy that stuff back, you'd have a small army of folks with pails and shovels scooping it up.

Last edited by pgp; 06/13/10 10:19 AM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: bullswan] #213680
06/13/10 10:18 AM
06/13/10 10:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
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“an island in the Pacific....
Originally Posted by bullswan
Quarterly I send the equivilent of 1/2 a new BMW to the US TREASURY.

That's impressive Sparky. Them MINIs are cheap.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: bullswan] #213686
06/13/10 12:36 PM
06/13/10 12:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 164
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I20RI Offline
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If the alternative for me was said tasteless mcmansion and ridiculous SUV than you'd find me in saskatchewan in a heartbeat. Instead I live in a passive solar/wood heated house with a 98& efficient propane boiler and drive a diesel VW that I try and run on bio (read Newport Biodiesel) as much as possible. How bout you? How much money do you send to Saudi Arabia? And I sail for ucks sake. And I pay taxes. I just wish they went to education instead of subsidies for industries that dont need them and compromise the safety of everyone on the planet. I would happily pay more for what fuel i use if it was earmarked for r & d of alternatives (read Craig Venter, another sailor) . And that supermajority never really existed or health care wouldn't have taken a year to pass in its watered down state. Furthermore, I am no blind leming following any political stripe. Energy should have been the #1, 1a,2,3,4,and 5 priority of POTUS. Like it was when Gore was elected.


Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: ] #213729
06/14/10 06:58 AM
06/14/10 06:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline
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Baltic  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Originally Posted by andrewscott

I agreed that 10 was to steep and said ok $6/gal.


Currently we are at about $6,50/ gallone - and we get along ...


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: Baltic] #213731
06/14/10 07:20 AM
06/14/10 07:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,074
Northfield,NH USA
bullswan Offline
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bullswan  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,074
Northfield,NH USA
" And that supermajority never really existed or health care wouldn't have taken a year to pass in its watered down state"

The supermajority never really existed? Did you take math in school? It took a year to pass because it is a colossally bad idea and the leaders of the Democratic Party are complete idiots. (Note: I'm not saying here that the leaders of the Republican Party aren't also idiots, but in this case they were irrelevant).

IF energy is the top 5 priorities for you, it sure makes it difficult for the President to re-invent 1/6 of the economy and try to keep the worlds muslims extremists from killing us. I guess he won't get your vote again.

When did Gore get elected (except as a Senator and as the world's biggest fabricator and hypocrite)?

Finally, all the dollars you pay in taxes should go to education huh? How does that work if Energy is 1,2,3,4,5? Oh I get it, the education is the Greenpeace, Sierra Club, PETA, NEA, SIEU, ACLU manifesto's..... am I right?

No Blind Lemming? When was the last time you voted for anyone other than a waaaaaay-out in space Liberal Democrat???


The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. - George Will
"It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan
Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: bullswan] #213732
06/14/10 07:30 AM
06/14/10 07:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
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I20RI Offline
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The supermajority never really existed because of pussies like ben nelson, I suppose you are one of those who thinks 90% of the public is against health care reform when in fact polling shows that when people understand what it does a majority are in favor.

I voted for Carcieri, a republican, because of his position on wind (read deepwater wind farm off block island).

an educated public with a broad capacity for general analysis of a wide range of issues can reasonably discuss issues without jumping to ridiculous conclusions about someone they never met. Gore just got the most votes, in florida, anyway, thats old stuff.

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: I20RI] #213790
06/14/10 01:28 PM
06/14/10 01:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,074
Northfield,NH USA
bullswan Offline
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bullswan  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,074
Northfield,NH USA
"an educated public with a broad capacity for general analysis of a wide range of issues can reasonably discuss issues without jumping to ridiculous conclusions about someone they never met."

Agreed. But sometimes it's sooo damn easy.

Who's polling are you referring to that shows a majority are in favor of the HealthCare reform? Also I think it's probably unlikely that ANYONE (especially those that voted for it in Congress "understand what it does." Everyday that are discovering new features and ramifications of the POS.


The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. - George Will
"It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan
Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: bullswan] #213796
06/14/10 02:07 PM
06/14/10 02:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
I think all this discussion about fuel prices is nice, but we're forgetting all the other things that petrochemicals produce: plastic, medicine, vitamins, fertilizer...pretty much anything we touch (and it was brought to your store by trucks). Alternative energy sources cannot produce those items themselves.

So $10/ gallon will kill the automotive segment. But it will only further cripple the medical field, consumer products, technology.... the list goes on.

As much as it pains me, I don't think we can live without petroleum. So, we'll (hopefully) learn from this disaster, work to prevent future ones, and go watch the "16 and pregnant" marathon on MTV.

I don't live in a yert, but I do drive a car that is about as old as Ghengis Kahn... and it gets 40 mpg on a good day (32 is the worst I've seen out of the past 8 years).


Jay

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: waterbug_wpb] #213798
06/14/10 02:21 PM
06/14/10 02:21 PM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I think all this discussion about fuel prices is nice, but we're forgetting all the other things that petrochemicals produce: plastic, medicine, vitamins, fertilizer...pretty much anything we touch (and it was brought to your store by trucks). Alternative energy sources cannot produce those items themselves.

So $10/ gallon will kill the automotive segment. But it will only further cripple the medical field, consumer products, technology.... the list goes on.

As much as it pains me, I don't think we can live without petroleum. So, we'll (hopefully) learn from this disaster,


I am no luddite but i am starting to feel we are living to fast, and past our means for a healthy existence.

plastic - full of toxins.. now they are finding plastics leaching into our foods, poisining babys (the bottles and diapers) and how bout all the plastic in the oceans.. i guess its a moot point in the gulf now?

medicine - i work in the Alt health industry, and they (alt-med) believe modern (western) meds simply mask symptom (and they are basically poisons)... NOT tread/avoid the cause. Yes some people need them... but with better lifestyle and diet... most can get off them, we see it every day in our clinic.

vitamins - I sell supplements (as 1 of the 3 companies i work with), high end, organic, supplements made from ingredients.. not a chemical closit

fertilizer - whats wrong with organic guanno and similar? seems the earth did pretty well "growing" before we made synthetic fertilizers.

i am no tree-huger, and i ate a McFakeFish lastnight, but i do eat mostly healthy, i don't take any medicines (i control my weight, and blood pressure and sugar intake etc), i use as few plastics in my food (and life) as possible, and i think we are overly dependent on oil. in every way.

I love my mystere, but i am willing to sail a wooden catamaran if we move away from oil

maybe the Amish have a few things right?

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: ] #213799
06/14/10 02:27 PM
06/14/10 02:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
not enough bird poop to support our current overconsumption. but good points nonetheless.

And maybe I should take another look at those sweet Shark catamarans...


Jay

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: waterbug_wpb] #213801
06/14/10 02:36 PM
06/14/10 02:36 PM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
not enough bird poop to support our current overconsumption. but good points nonetheless.

And maybe I should take another look at those sweet Shark catamarans...


then maybe our over-consumption is the problem????

(bingo, we have a weeener)
(and come to caladisi, there's enough bird crap for everyone..

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: ] #213803
06/14/10 02:40 PM
06/14/10 02:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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whose judging whether or not he's overconsuming?

btw, I'd be dead right now if it wasn't for modern pharmaceuticals. Your alt-health people might claim that they are poisons - but as someone who sees what they do every day and how they are studied - I have a different perspective of it all.

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: ] #213804
06/14/10 02:42 PM
06/14/10 02:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
maybe, but I recall some island in the pacific that was completely leveled by the poop-mining in short order. I think it's only source of revenue now are computer servers that operate there. Can't recall the name of the place but it was mentioned as a "host" country to some of the banking fraud...



Jay

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: waterbug_wpb] #213805
06/14/10 02:44 PM
06/14/10 02:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,117
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Northfield Mn
Over consuption, or over population?

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: ThunderMuffin] #213806
06/14/10 02:55 PM
06/14/10 02:55 PM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Undecided
whose judging whether or not he's overconsuming?

btw, I'd be dead right now if it wasn't for modern pharmaceuticals. Your alt-health people might claim that they are poisons - but as someone who sees what they do every day and how they are studied - I have a different perspective of it all.


I am not saying they aren't life saving in some situations, of course there are many modern inventions/medicines that are.. but in MOST cases people can get off things like blood pressure meds, thyroid meds, diabetic drugs, viagra, mood/psych drugs if the causes (of the problems) are found and corrected.

Alt med's point of view is most disease is a function of an allergy, or an excess of something the body doesn't want/need or the absence of something the body needs/wants

and can be corrected by eliminating the allergy/toxin or replacing the missing substance (usually a mineral or vitamin)

This is alt-meds view and the more i see of it (been here 8 years now) the more i believe it to have sound principals. (there is nothing absolute or exclusive in my POV)

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: Karl_Brogger] #213807
06/14/10 02:56 PM
06/14/10 02:56 PM

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andrewscott
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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Over consuption, or over population?
they go hand in hand.. and we know your "solution" Karl the Ripper

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: ] #213810
06/14/10 03:10 PM
06/14/10 03:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Originally Posted by andrewscott
Originally Posted by Undecided
whose judging whether or not he's overconsuming?

btw, I'd be dead right now if it wasn't for modern pharmaceuticals. Your alt-health people might claim that they are poisons - but as someone who sees what they do every day and how they are studied - I have a different perspective of it all.


I am not saying they aren't life saving in some situations, of course there are many modern inventions/medicines that are.. but in MOST cases people can get off things like blood pressure meds, thyroid meds, diabetic drugs, viagra, mood/psych drugs if the causes (of the problems) are found and corrected.

Alt med's point of view is most disease is a function of an allergy, or an excess of something the body doesn't want/need or the absence of something the body needs/wants

and can be corrected by eliminating the allergy/toxin or replacing the missing substance (usually a mineral or vitamin)

This is alt-meds view and the more i see of it (been here 8 years now) the more i believe it to have sound principals. (there is nothing absolute or exclusive in my POV)


FYI, I'm married to a D.O. which involves a lot of "Alt Med".

I see it from both sides of your digression more than you know smile

Re: Ok here is my problem with this whole oil spill thing [Re: ] #213814
06/14/10 03:33 PM
06/14/10 03:33 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,386
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by andrewscott

I am not saying they aren't life saving in some situations, of course there are many modern inventions/medicines that are.. but in MOST cases people can get off things like blood pressure meds, thyroid meds, diabetic drugs, viagra, mood/psych drugs if the causes (of the problems) are found and corrected.

Alt med's point of view is most disease is a function of an allergy, or an excess of something the body doesn't want/need or the absence of something the body needs/wants and can be corrected by eliminating the allergy/toxin or replacing the missing substance (usually a mineral or vitamin)

This is alt-meds view and the more i see of it (been here 8 years now) the more i believe it to have sound principals. (there is nothing absolute or exclusive in my POV)


Homeopathy, holistic, osteopathic is all good stuff, practice some of the philosophy myself, and you'll see with the younger doctors these days some what of a blend in how the go about managing and caring for patients simular to the osteopathic method.

But, as an absolute as you pointed out not everything can be cured with vitamins, minerals etc.... and not all drugs mask the problem. In some case you're going to need some roecefen, interferon, azithromycin, etc..... and I hope a someone like yourself will recognize this and know when to advise a patient to seek the other alternative such as western medicine.


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