Hi F16-ers,

yes I'm dreaming of a F16 boat. I want earlier or later change to this tempting class with its light weight and high speed. Sailing single hand and near the limits with my 0,18ton-Nacra I often ask myself wether you are able to right your boats alone ALWAYS and without any righting devices!?

Is there a difference in righting among the F16 boats like the "heavy" Viper to a lighter one like Falcon?

I have a weight of 75kg (that's about 165lbs isn't it?)

Thanks for your comments!

I've righted in most conditions without a problem, but I outweigh you by 40 pounds. I've heard of the lighter guys using a garbage bag and filling it full of water when needed.

No problems so far, always comes up easy. Seems to easier in more wind. Just make sure your mast is well sealed. I am heavy (100kg) and tall (1.87cm) so that helps. I don't think the few extra kilos in the viper would make any difference unless you went turtle. I'm sure someone will let you have a go if you're near any F16s!

I'm 68Kg and have never yet been unable to right my boat in all conditions.

I think it depends on the conditions.

If it's windy, no problem. But if you somehow capsize in lightish winds, it could possibly be a problem.

All you need is a righting bag or trash bag to make sure!


Mike

I have my I18 on the "Ammersee" a lake in South Germany. The only F16 I have ever seen there over the last two years was one Viper headin' down South and coming back North with a broken jib :-/ I don't know where the boat lies nor who ownes it. The first close look I had on the Viper was in Texel this June. My area is Hobie dominated, then comes Topcat and then all the others but no F16's yet.

I think its a little bit like buying a car. If people have the choice most of them take the bigger engine (F18). Later they (me too) recognize the smaller one (F16)would have been the smarter choice. Especially if there is no real or big performance difference.

I think that all F16 with the super wing mast behave more or less the same. With lighter masts it is even easier. My Javelin even has a 9m carbon mast and I can right it without bags or whatever device. I am 70kg and 1.80m.
It requires maybe a bit more know how to right as a single hander: where to stand on the hull turning the boat to the wind etc.

Cheers,

Klaus

I have had problems righting the blade solo, weigh 165 or so. Need some wind to do it. if there are only very light winds I can't get it back up without using some type of aid.

I am 150 (68kg) and can right it solo unaided with the aluminum rig only if it is blowing around 12 or more. I can right the carbon rig myself in any condition.

To be safe when sailing solo I do now always try to carry a righting bag just in case.

Agreed. I think you need to be 175 lbs (79 kg) to right in all conditions. I weigh about 170 lbs (77 kg) and need the bag for certain light conditions (I use a heavy duty garbage bag--fill it with a couple of gallons of water and bring it up to your chest...bingo boat comes over).

Speaking of righting aids one thing I did recently was to get rid of the thin righting line that nests under the tramp and replace it with a nice fat line that I keep in the tramp bag to be thrown over the hull when capsized. I couldn't grip the small line and that led to problems when my height was not right. With the fat line I can grab it easily and climb up or down as needed to keep my body out of the water. Used it last week and it was great. My 2 cents. Ed

Agree with you on that, but I kept losing stuff out of my tramp bag when I'd pull the fat line out ... decided that the under tramp method was sufficient. (I did have sewn into my tramp bag a small pouch for my trash bags for easy access).

Heavier winds is not a guarantee righting. Sometimes the current will not allow the bows go all the way to weather. Recently, was all the way on tip of the bows and even paddling and she still could not come around enough. I was thinking I needed a sea anchor.

Yes the thin line needs to be hooked into the harness like a trap otherwise I agree the heavier line would be much more comfortable.

Clipping in may be more effective however especially if there is a need for righting bag as it frees up a hand and requires much less energy then hanging by ones arms while dealing with the bag. Also maybe best to conserve energy for the subsequent swim and remount.

I have failed once to right my Stealth which has a light carbon mast. My only righting aid at that time was a friend on his A Class. I was probably just under 75kgs at the time and the wind was light.
If I were to have a heavier alloy mast I doubt whether I would be Class legal as the F16 rules state the crew must be able to right the boat.

The rule says the sailor must be able to right the boat but this includes using any dependable righting aid you can think off.

Personally, I have never failed to right my 120 kg F16 with alu mast. I'm 86 kg and 1.85 mtr tall. As the others say it does get more difficult with lighter winds. The hardest conditions to right the boat in are no waves and no wind. Having said that, the F16's are the most easily righted catamarans on the market today after the A-cats and possibly the Swell Shadow. For example, I was not able to right the Hobie FX-one with just the righting line in anything under 15 knots with waves.

The easy of righting a F16 means that lighter skippers can right the boat with relatively simple aids like the earlier mentioned trashbag. The vast majority of other designs typically need more elaborate schemes (when righting singlehandedly)

Opting for a F16 carbon mast over an F16 alu mast wins you about 10 kg's of righting weight. Meaning you can right the boat with 10 kg less on the righting line. This seems to tie in well with the experience covered by others in the thread. When it comes to survival then removing the mainsail from the mast (hard work BUT can be done during a capsize) will win you another 15 to 20 kg. The threshold for F16's under ALL conditions seems to be just over 75 kg, making survival possible for anybody over 60 kg (as you do carry a peddle on your boat right ? Or are prepared to peddle with your hands).

As a last remark, there will always be some weight below which righting a catamaran will not be viable. Here in the F16 class we define righting under ALL possible conditions including no winds or waves (hardest). Lots of others just assume that you don't capsize below 10 knots and that results in a significant difference in quoted righting weight.

There are quite a few "rumours" about the differences between the Viper and the other F16's like the Falcon, Aqua raptor, Stealth and Aussie Blade. Most of them contain very little truth if any at all.

For righting the most important parameter is the weight of the mast and rig and possibly the amount of water sticking to the sails or that is inside the mast. A hooking leech can trap some water on the sail near the top and make a huge difference in righting weight. Differences in Hull weight etc are not really a factor at all.

An importance aspect to note is that all F16's use the same alu mast and as good as identical sails and rigging. This means that the Viper rig is basically identical in weight (and righting) to the others (excepting the Carbon F16 rigs). Then add maybe 3 kg additional righting weight to compensate for the heavier hulls etc (assuming a 130 kg Viper) and you're there. By comparison, 1 kg additional tipweight already results in 8.5 kg additional righting weight and this shows how much more important the rig weight is in comparison to platform weight.

At 75 kg you will be just a tad too light for righting in what most would call no-wind/no-wave conditions (0-5 knots, flat water). You should be fine in "normal" regular sailing conditions without using any right aids but with a proper righting technique. Carry a bag for safety and expect to not use it unless you somehow flip the boat in flat water and rather light winds.

Best advice I can give you is to arrange for a test ride on a F16 and simply try righting it alone; then you know for certain.

Wouter

I'm fairly light at ~160lbs(73kg) and have had difficulty pulling the Viper up in lighter air. Any wind or waves and its not too bad.

One thing I've noticed is when sailing with crew, just them being on the lower hull and not necessarily pulling on the righting line the boat comes right up. I wonder if the extra weight pressing the hull, (over singlehanded), in the water helps slow the drift making it easier to come up?

Dan and I sailing at 385 didn't have to use the righting line when the wind was up, just pull on the dolphin striker.

The Righting Rule (1.8) states;
1.8.1 It is the responsibility of the crew to ensure that the boat is equipped with a righting system that will enable the crew to right the boat without outside assistance.
My F16 is equipped with a righting line but still occasionally I can't right my F16 when the wind is very light. So by the letter of the law I'm breaking a F16 Rule!

Thank you all for sharing your expieriences.

My first own cat was a Hobie 16 and after your replies I think its about the same with the F16. Mast sealed, Wind and a not too exhausted sailor are necessary for the job.

Interesting to hear of the idea to pull down the main. I'm gonna try that next time when i'm drifting down the lake turtled and no help in sight.