| Re: F16 wings
[Re: Devon]
#219244 09/11/10 08:02 AM 09/11/10 08:02 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | That depends on which F16 you are going to use, as they have different hull shapes and different bow shape, ie. some have more volume up front than others.
Are you using the F17? The F17 is of course 1 foot longer so that adds more buoyancy up front too, that will help, you might want to talk to the Hobie 18 guys as that's the boat I've seen most with the wings, that and the Hobie 17's. I've never seen any on a F16.
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: F16 wings
[Re: Timbo]
#219245 09/11/10 05:24 PM 09/11/10 05:24 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | I had wings on my FXone. Not that great, the little bit of leverage wasn't worth the extra weight.
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: F16 wings
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#219248 09/11/10 07:19 PM 09/11/10 07:19 PM |
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,121 Eastern NC, USA tshan
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121 Eastern NC, USA | Wings would be part of the overall beam measurement - which is limited to 2.5m (one side could fold up while the other deploys). Not sure it would be worth it on a F16 - it seems as though the rules are biased against wings, as they are not part of the overall weight calculation either (if not permanently fixed).
Tom | | | Re: F16 wings
[Re: macca]
#219253 09/12/10 03:39 AM 09/12/10 03:39 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK Jalani
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK | Andrew, F16 is a semi-development class. Wings can be retro-fitted (at a cost and adjustment to beam width) and should a carbon, folding wing setup be trialled and found to be leap forward in performance, it would then be up to each owner to decide whether they should go that route........ I (and other F16 owners) fail to see the struggle in that?
John Alani ___________ Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538 | | | Re: F16 wings
[Re: macca]
#219257 09/12/10 06:23 AM 09/12/10 06:23 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | a folding wing setup in carbon would give a considerable advantage over boats without wings.
total weight of each wing (with effective beam increase of 1.5m) would only be 2.5kg including mountings..
so you would get a massive righting moment gain for very little weight cost. Its another F16 rule that I struggle to see the benefit to the class.
Andrew, As john says; the boat must still be 8 foot 2 wide so with wings you will get LESS RM. Why? Well; with wings where is the mast in terms of distance from the pivot point(leeward hull) ? without wings; the mast is 1/2 boat width from the pivor point. With wings the mast is less than 1/2 of the effective boat width as the wing IS part of beam. So the mass of the mast is closer to the pivot point and contributes less to the RM. Adding wings on a fixed beam platform REDUCES RM.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: F16 wings
[Re: Stewart]
#219258 09/12/10 06:31 AM 09/12/10 06:31 AM |
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 110 Devon OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 110 | Ruls are ruls, but the tornadoes changed their ruls and it was a huge advantage to the class, i cant see how a set of wings would do any harm to the class, i dont think the hobie fx wings were all that advanced compared to what we can make nowdays, so i guess weight wouldnt be an issue, they would have to be easily removed to trailer or fold up, that also would not be hard to make, the leeward would kik up so no drag when the windward hull comes up, i can only see pluses, oh well im gunna try them, but trapping out on them with spinaker up is gunna take some gonads..Great response thanks guys, pics will come but have to wait for Nacra! | | | Re: F16 wings
[Re: Devon]
#219267 09/12/10 10:30 AM 09/12/10 10:30 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK Jalani
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK | Devon, the class rules DO allow wings - they must still fit within the boxrule though. So you arrange the wings so that one is always 'kicked up' and you get a slightly better righting moment than a full width F16 without wings. However you're penalised in that they are not part of the platform weight so your boat will always be over and you have the added complexity of the arrangement and the chance of something going wrong. It may well be that a winged F16 could be faster but that is the beauty of the class - someone has to try it first before others will follow!
John Alani ___________ Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538 | | | Re: F16 wings
[Re: waynemarlow]
#219271 09/12/10 03:54 PM 09/12/10 03:54 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 612 Cape Town, South Africa Steve_Kwiksilver
addict
|
addict
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612 Cape Town, South Africa | My understanding of the "wings" rule is that it allows sailors who for example sail a narrow platform boat (think Mosquito, beam 2.2m) to add wings to the max of 300mm each side, giving equal RM to a fully-optimised boat. From what I understand they don`t have to be folding, if they`re fixed, the platform is still only measured with one rack. The only advantage I can think of with this setup is that such a boat will fly a hull in less wind than a wider platform, while still having the max. RM of a full F16 design. So light wind performance might be slightly better (you can fly a hull earlier), but with the weight of the racks, do you really gain anything ? Seems self-correcting, which I`ve found most of the well-considered rules to be. | | | Re: F16 wings
[Re: Jalani]
#219272 09/12/10 03:56 PM 09/12/10 03:56 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,021 Australia macca
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021 Australia | Andrew, F16 is a semi-development class. Wings can be retro-fitted (at a cost and adjustment to beam width) and should a carbon, folding wing setup be trialled and found to be leap forward in performance, it would then be up to each owner to decide whether they should go that route........ I (and other F16 owners) fail to see the struggle in that? My bad... the wing rule serves no purpose, not sure why its even in there really. However, I do like the "F16 is a semi-development class" part. If the class is open to development why are curved boards banned? it seems that there is a risk of falling behind the development curve... was there a reason as to the banning of curved boards? almost anything else goes so why not the bent boards? | | | Re: F16 wings
[Re: macca]
#219273 09/12/10 04:03 PM 09/12/10 04:03 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK Jalani
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK | The class rules have been carefully structured to permit limited development and experimentation. Lifting foils, curved boards, solid sails etc are quantum changes that may well be permitted in time (if members vote for them) but for the moment there are plenty of areas to explore that are within the rules.
John Alani ___________ Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538 | | | Re: F16 wings
[Re: macca]
#219279 09/12/10 06:24 PM 09/12/10 06:24 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525 | Well it seems that the development is very limited in this case... so much for the open mindedness That may be your funniest post ever.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: F16 wings
[Re: macca]
#219282 09/12/10 06:52 PM 09/12/10 06:52 PM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Well it seems that the development is very limited in this case... so much for the open mindedness So, Macca, in some posts you argue that the F16 rules are too open; in others you argue that they are not open enough? Which is it?
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | |
|
0 registered members (),
599
guests, and 87
spiders. | Key: Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod | | Forums26 Topics22,405 Posts267,056 Members8,150 | Most Online2,167 Dec 19th, 2022 | | |