So we know that the PHRF rating does not apply here- this is just for fun. If we are just talking about UPWIND, what do you think the rating would be for a Tiger or Wildcat? For instance, a J109 rates in the 66-72 range, should an an F18 beat them upwind? How much slower or faster? I have sailed on many PHRF boats but never been on the water at the same time on a cat.

With target speeds of 10 knots upwind, The F18 is roughly half again to twice as fast upwind as the J109. The number of circles possibly sailed around the J109 over a 10 mile course might be pretty close ...)


When sailing circles around the big boats such as the 109, generally, we have found that the scowling face on the big boat is the owner. The waving female with the big smile and binoculars/camera is the wife/girl friend. heheh...try it!

The US Sailing site has a conversion table for Portsmouth to PHRF. I've tried it a couple times, as long as there is breeze, you'll kill the PHRF boats!

Well if you do a Portsmouth conversion you will come up with a rating of around 44. From my experience if it is blowing over 6-8 TWS you will destroy this rating and under 6-8 TWS you will not be competitive as the keelboats have much better VMG in the lower wind range.

When our friends sailed their Tiger in a 15 mile round an island race in about 10-12 TWS they were about even with us on the 65 foot boat I run, which rates -69, until the wind shut off and we finished and they didn't.

10-12 and your friends on the Tiger were not faster? Assuming they could trim, I have to ask, were they fishing, or just dragging a lobster pot?

Completely agree with ksufer2 and sloansailing, if breeze is on, you kick but, if you get to drifter conditions, you can't beat the handicap. Although in the light stuff we still would tend to beat them to the line, just not by enough.

Now the start line with 40 footers, that's fun....

Well it was around an island, with lots of holes. And perhaps average wind speed was a little lower than 10-12... The 65 goes wind speed up and down wind in under 10, then 9 knots upwind and about 3/4 of TWS downwind above 10 TWS, with MUCH better VMG angles than the Tiger.

-80 to -90 and your getting in the neighborhood of being fair if the wind is up say 12 - 20.

Good stuff guys. Thanks.

This weekend at the Bob Buzzelli Multihul Rendevous in Sarasota, John Casey and his F18 started with the Stiletto and PHRF multihull fleet. Following is the race times and handicaps for the top 2 in the PHRF fleet and the F18. Someone should remember the math for a proportion.

F18 Merlin -12 F28R 21

57 min 1:03 min 1:08 min
41 min 57 min 57 min
24 min 25 min 28 min

Merlin is a custom Peter Wormwood designed Gulfstream 35.