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Outright speedsailing record broken! #221653
10/14/10 02:15 PM
10/14/10 02:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,584
+31NL
The kitesurfers have taken back the record of l'Hydroptere by averaging 54,1kts over 500m!
I think it is mainly the weight of his balls which keep him on the water...

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Tony_F18] #221658
10/14/10 04:25 PM
10/14/10 04:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,117
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Northfield Mn
Damn!

That board is frickin' tiny!


I'm boatless.
Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Karl_Brogger] #221659
10/14/10 06:06 PM
10/14/10 06:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Don_Atchley Offline
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Don_Atchley  Offline
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Seattle,Wa
That's a freakin' waterski!


Hobie Tiger 2003
Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Don_Atchley] #221672
10/14/10 10:50 PM
10/14/10 10:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 431
Netherlands
DennisMe Offline
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DennisMe  Offline
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Netherlands
Jeez.. next thing you know they'll break the record barefoot!

Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: DennisMe] #221731
10/16/10 04:43 AM
10/16/10 04:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 110
D
Devon Offline
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Devon  Offline
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D
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actually if someone uses a pair of barefoot shoes then wouldnt that be considered a cat?

Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Devon] #221740
10/16/10 07:48 AM
10/16/10 07:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
IndyWave Offline
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IndyWave  Offline
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Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
So, a guy on a waterski, connected to a parachute, is considered SAILING?

There are people who jump out of airplanes with boogie-boards on their feet. If they pop their chute and touch down in water, would that qualify for the sailing record too?


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: IndyWave] #221743
10/16/10 09:09 AM
10/16/10 09:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 162
Dunedin Causeway, FL
hobiephil Offline
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hobiephil  Offline
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
Originally Posted by IndyWave
So, a guy on a waterski, connected to a parachute, is considered SAILING?

There are people who jump out of airplanes with boogie-boards on their feet. If they pop their chute and touch down in water, would that qualify for the sailing record too?


Only the vertical speed record. But that will be beaten by someone using a tropical drink umbrella (once).

Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: IndyWave] #221753
10/16/10 03:34 PM
10/16/10 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
S
srm Offline
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srm  Offline
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S
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Originally Posted by IndyWave
So, a guy on a waterski, connected to a parachute, is considered SAILING?

Its the same question that's been posed everytime someone breaks the record on an unconventional craft like windsurfers, hydrofoilers, and one-way planing tri-pod boats. I don't see how a kiteboard is any more unique than those craft. It's 100% wind powered, in contact with the water, and supported by hydrodynamic lift. Sounds like sailing to me.

sm

Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: srm] #221776
10/16/10 11:03 PM
10/16/10 11:03 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,348
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Kingston SE South Australia
Not really sailing, if you put the sail in the right place you can slingshot yourself along the course like turning at the back of a ski boat. The longer you want to go in a straight line the longer your control wires. Great to see though I watched one wind down the course of the Cooper Creek while the kite came straight down, same guy parked it in a tree for about 3 hours as well


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Cant have two Ram Raiders at the same time so not named yet
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Arrow 1576
Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: JeffS] #221777
10/16/10 11:36 PM
10/16/10 11:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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Seeker  Offline
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
"So, a guy on a waterski, connected to a parachute, is considered SAILING?"
Yes...so what bothers you the most? A) The fact that he is going nearly twice as fast as a typical beach cat. 2)The fact that he is doing it for 10% of the cost of a new NACRA 20CF? C) The fact that all the gear it took to break the record would fit in the trunk of a sub compact car? D) All of the above.

Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Seeker] #221785
10/17/10 03:12 AM
10/17/10 03:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe

I accept the validity of the record but one thing does bother me a little.

The boats achieve the records in MUCH lower windstrengths then the boards. Basically the boards are waiting for windspeeds that are themselves very close to the speed record itself. Theoretically, they can staps themselves to a large bedsheet in a Katrina type hurricane and have themselves dragged over the water whereas the boat actually break technological barriers by sailing at least twice as fast as the wind.

In the case of Hydropthere, they break the record on open water and not some man made or highly specialized speed trench.

That to me gives more weight to Hydroptheres record.

Afterall we are not counting the experimental rocketcar on rails as a valid entry into the automobiel speed record either.

It is a case of the brute force approach against the elegant approach. I will always favour the last.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 10/17/10 03:13 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Wouter] #221791
10/17/10 08:27 AM
10/17/10 08:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
S
srm Offline
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Originally Posted by Wouter

It is a case of the brute force approach against the elegant approach. I will always favour the last.


The argument could go both ways. Personally, I find something admirable about a craft that can actually go out and be sailed efficiently and under control in tropical storm force winds (I don't know of any craft that has broken the record in actual hurricane force wind). Windsurfers and kiteboards have an elegent simplicity that far exceedes the complexity and expense of l'hydroptere. If anything, I would consider l'hydroptere to be more of the "experimental rocketcar" than the windsurfer/kiteboard which can be easily purchased by any aspiring speed sailor.
sm

Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: srm] #221794
10/17/10 11:32 AM
10/17/10 11:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
IndyWave Offline
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IndyWave  Offline
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Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
I'm not denying he achieved a speed record, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with kite-skiing; but it's stretching reality too far to call a waterski a boat, and a parachute a sail. Yes, he harnessed the power of the wind to propel himself at 54 knots, but call it what it is and establish that category's record. If you're talking sailing a boat at 50 knots, then l'Hydroptere found a way to do it; this guy did not.


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: IndyWave] #221812
10/17/10 07:04 PM
10/17/10 07:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,117
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Northfield Mn
Well somebody would just have to break it up into classes. Foiling, not foiling, multi hull, mono, and something for a mast vs sail supported by wires.

Regardless this dude still has the over speed sailing record on water.


I'm boatless.
Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Karl_Brogger] #221820
10/17/10 10:17 PM
10/17/10 10:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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Seeker  Offline
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Both are awesome in their own right. One takes big nerve....the other takes a big bank account. I am more impressed that a kite guy with enough guts can take a few grand and beat a record set by a multi million dollar engineering marvel.

Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Seeker] #221839
10/18/10 06:36 AM
10/18/10 06:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Steve_Kwiksilver Offline
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Cape Town, South Africa
"Yes...so what bothers you the most? A) The fact that he is going nearly twice as fast as a typical beach cat. 2)The fact that he is doing it for 10% of the cost of a new NACRA 20CF? C) The fact that all the gear it took to break the record would fit in the trunk of a sub compact car? D) All of the above."
Haha, brilliant, I think you`ve summed it up here. Except "almost twice as fast as a typical beachcat" should read "almost 3 times as fast" - most beachcats can do not too much past 18knots, maybe 21 for the Tornados & F18 etc. (By typical beachcat I understand H16).
I believe people who won`t acknowledge kitesurfers as sailors are of the same mindset as those who discarded windsurfing as a form of sailing when they first started taking the records. This happens every time someone`s perception of what a "boat" constitutes is challenged. Besides, WSSRC has ownership of the rules, and the kitesurfers have satisfied the WSSRC that they are water-borne craft powered by wind, so they are entitled to the record of the fastest wind-powered water-borne craft.
It would be easier for everyone to get along if we could just appreciate eachother`s disciplines, Hydroptere can be the fastest trimaran on hydrofoils, Sailrocket can be the fastest one-way monohull, Windsurfers can still have their own record, kites can be the fastest anything-that-floats, and Macquarie Innovation can claim to be the fastest "Thing with Wing" (How anyone can classify that as a sailboat is beyond me - see, we all have our prejudices !)

Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Seeker] #221841
10/18/10 06:43 AM
10/18/10 06:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
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Originally Posted by Seeker
Both are awesome in their own right. One takes big nerve....the other takes a big bank account. I am more impressed that a kite guy with enough guts can take a few grand and beat a record set by a multi million dollar engineering marvel.


+1

I'm impressed with their nerve, skill level, and simplicity of kit. But I ain't doin' it!


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Karl_Brogger] #221842
10/18/10 06:45 AM
10/18/10 06:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,303
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,303
South Carolina
The thing that bothers me about it is that they are sailing in a purposely designed trench for the record making it as far from what we would call "sailing" as possible.

While they are all powered by the wind (which is fine in my book), I do take issue with the conditions of the water on which the various records are being set. They're SO incredibly different I believe there should be three speed record categories; one for sailing in a drag trench, one for sailing in protected (flat water) shallow lee-shore like what Sail Rocket and Macquarie Innovation have been doing, and third for open water like what Hydroptere is capable of. Granted, you would have to put some definitions on these course types but these really are very different records sailed in these three different formats.


Jake Kohl
Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Jake] #221850
10/18/10 08:11 AM
10/18/10 08:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,117
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Northfield Mn
where do the ice boats and land yachts fit into the equation?Both are sailing as well.


I wonder how limited the speed of a kite is? like if you were to do it on ice?


I'm boatless.
Re: Outright speedsailing record broken! [Re: Karl_Brogger] #221879
10/18/10 11:27 AM
10/18/10 11:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
IndyWave Offline
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IndyWave  Offline
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Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
+1

If a waterski qualifies as a boat, ice skates would have to, as well. They're in contact with water.


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
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