Why not? ISAF are....

Is there anyone who seriously thinks that the H16 is the right boat for the games????

Do you want multihull sailing to be represented at the Olympic games by a H16??

Oh, and remember: the H16 is an OPEN class!

John

Here's a different question.
Should the Olympic Equipment and be challenging enough to sort out the best sailors in the world?

Or should the Olympic Equipment simply reflect what's popular world wide?

My answer is drawn from mandates to the equipment committee will consider boats that are NOT EVEN DESIGNED OR BUILT YET.... therefore, the answer cannot be the latter!

In reality... they politics of ISAF and MNAs are looking at disciplines, classes, boats and their own interests STILL! Clean and simple guidelines are irrelevant in this muddy muddy quagmire.

Bill Roberts made the first point on this forum many many moons ago.... he was right then and now! (He used the Formula I analogy... you don't sort the best drivers in the world out using stock minivans.)

We're not discussing the equipment for the Games, though. We're discussing mixed multihull sailing, of which there is plenty. As long as you consider the largest one design fleet in the world.

Actually, we are discussing multihulls and the Olympics. And none of us wants to have multihull sailing represented at the Olympics by a H16..

I think the H16 is the perfect Womens catamaran for the Olympics.

It is one of the few classes in the world that actually has a women's championship since at least 1989:
http://www.hobieclass.com/default.asp?Page=1913
It is cheap to own. It is SMOD. It is the largest catamaran class anywhere. Many teams sail it mixed. Youth can sail it. Its not that slow.

And how long would a H16 remain competitive if used by Olympic teams for training and competition?

how many regatta's would you get from a set of sails?

What would the impact be on a 4 year campaign cost?

I know the answers, and they are not so good....

Who in the world is proposing the Hobie 16 as an Olympic boat?

I was half in the "open" camp, but these posts are actually clearing things up for me. When you make the arguments for keeping Olympic women out of multihull sailing "out loud," it gets easier to understand why there is a push for "mixed."

Cast off the anchor of specific boats and consider how best to present an exciting and engaging multihull event that is truly "open" to women's participation.

Well... you might ask Pease and Carolijn what the constraints are.... they seem to do well in the OPEN era. Their experience is very much counter to the Betsy Allison Old Fart point of view.

I don't hear the comments as negative to women participating in the Olympic Multihull at all. Make it open and pick suitable equipment... Open Multihull and OPen 470 events have integrity... Mixed do not.

Yes... most of the women racing catamarans are on Hobie 16's but opposing the H16 as a boat for this MiXED event is not equivalent to dissing women.

Ok, lets make it open:-

we need a boat that has an optimum crew weight of between 135 and 150kg. to ensure we dont have tiny teams..

That rules out the F16, like it or not. The F16 crew weight will go down to around 120kg if it goes Olympic.

F18 actually works pretty well, top level teams will be competitive in that weight range. Not so good for the class though.... plus the boats are restricted in build material so they will go soft before an Olympic team gets full value from them.

I am all for women sailing cats in the Games, my Girlfriend would be a solid chance at going to the games on a cat but even she thinks the mixed event is a stupid idea.

There are a few agenda's at play here, ISAF claim to want equal participation. So if that the case lets go with 5/5. it ensures equality and also integrity of the events.

Just because there isn't much Womens only multihull sailing going on isn't an excuse. Just build the discipline and they will come!

Show me where I can find a 2 man keel boat class other than the Star? So its clearly not about what is actually happening in the world of sailing....

Are we not trying to fix something that wasnt broken in the first place?
What is wrong with just keeping it an open event? The girls can participate and have as much of a chance of winning as the boys.
With the Tornado there where very few teams, I think turning it into a mixed event could reduce the number of teams even further.

Tony.... er... read faster...
the train on the tracks supported by a growing number of MNA's is Mixed Multhull blancing Mixed dinghy

...Equipment to follow (except that it will be the 470 since everyone has at least two of these boats and the winks have been exchanged).

If it were OPEN Multihull and Open dinghy we would be singing Hosanna's to our multihull reps for doing a spectacular job negotiating the swamp!

Just thinking aloud:

If ISAF brings a multihull back to the Olympics, there are three things they can do:

a) Reinstate the Tornado, because it is simple and there is a precendent with the Star, that also was reinstated after it left.
b) Adopt a new class through trials, like when the Tornado became an Olympic class.
c) Choose an existing class, that is extremely unlikely, for any choice they make is guaranteed to displease the majority of multihullers.

This very thread demonstrates how difficult it is to please everyone's wishes when it comes to existing classes, and if ISAF brings a multihull back, they will certainly want all the political credit they can get. A new class chosen by trials is a politically wiser choice in this regards.

As a consequence, it is fair to conclude that the direct choice of an existing class (option c) is extremely unlikely - unless it can win the trials (option b). In view of that, we are left with two rational lines of action:

a) Lobby for the Tornados.
b) Lobby for trials.

Everything else is a waste of work, time and money.

Proposals to choose an existing class for the Olympics must exclude those unable to win the trials, but don't waste your time thinking about it, for it is impossible to forecast anything without knowing the set of criteria (like weight, performance, cost, media atractiveness, etc.) and their respective weights.

An interesting alternative is to discuss the best criteria for the trials. It might actually be useful if ISAF goes this way.

Cheers,

There will for sure be a trial event.

What we want to do is define the event, and make sure that event is in the best interests of sailing and not just satisfying a PC requirement..

Or make sure a 20-footer for 180kg teams isn't right out...

Well, the last 20ft boat in the games was sailed by teams from 135-160kg

That is true.

If popularity with non-sailors, numbers, price and tactical complexity (read: slow speed) are overweighted, the Wave could be the thing...

I'd like to know what set of criteria/weights are best to keep the IOC, media, public, ISAF, sailors and multihullers happy?

ME TOO!!!

One design
modern features
spectacular to watch (read: over powered)
quality build
longevity of components
quality, long lasting sails
availability
accessibility


If womens only: 115-130kg
If Mens only : 145-160kg
if mixed: 130-150kg

thats my point of view..

F-20 C for the Olympics.