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Suggestions light wind big chop?
by fa1321. 05/08/21 07:26 AM
Downhaul under spinnaker
by CapriSun. 04/22/21 09:01 AM
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Keeping the boat down #231539
04/26/11 01:50 PM
04/26/11 01:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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TEH  Offline OP
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I sail a Blade uni with a '08 Glaser main and have had some difficulty keeping the boat from popping up once the wind builds. While other guys are able to harness the higher winds and I am struggling to keep the boat down. I am not a light weight guy, so I think I have balast covered.

Here is what I have tried so far - sheeting harder, downhaul, and trying to put more tension on the diamonds (up to the max in the Falcon tuning guide). I have also set my spreader rake to the settings in the tuning guide.

Am I missing something basic here?


Blade F16 USA 725
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Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: TEH] #231541
04/26/11 02:06 PM
04/26/11 02:06 PM

M
MarkMT
Unregistered
MarkMT
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M



Have you tried raising the boards?

Yeah I'm back smile

Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: TEH] #231542
04/26/11 02:14 PM
04/26/11 02:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
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Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Drop the trav a bit after max downhaul and maybe center rotation

Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: ] #231544
04/26/11 02:15 PM
04/26/11 02:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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Yeah, that works but I am concerned about pointing. Also, other people aren't raising their boards and I have at least 30 lbs on them.

Since you are back, maybe you should start a discussion on boat weight??


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: PTP] #231545
04/26/11 02:18 PM
04/26/11 02:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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TEH  Offline OP
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Should have mentioned I do adjust the rotation. I point to the back beam. I can try the trav idea and see how that works.


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: TEH] #231546
04/26/11 02:26 PM
04/26/11 02:26 PM

M
MarkMT
Unregistered
MarkMT
Unregistered
M



You're trying to get rid of me again aren't you smile

Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: ] #231548
04/26/11 02:52 PM
04/26/11 02:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline
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I sail a Falcon uni with the same main as you, I'm definitely a heavyweight!

A few things you could look at:

Foot setup - Make sure your foot is set up as per the Falcon guide, could be too loose and you can't flatten off enough.

Mast rotation - I find the main really sensitive to mast rotation, the sort of conditions you are talking about, you seem to have it where I normally would, but there seems to be a pretty narrow 'sweet spot' where a bit further in you lose all power and a bit further out and lose all pointing.

Batten tension - I actually have a bit of tension on the battens unless it is really blowing, but you could try a bit less.

Mainsheet - In max hull flying conditions I find I am working the main all the time - seems to be the only way to stop that hull popping effect. Use the cleat as little as possible, try and drive in a straight line and keep the hull just flying, try and anticipate the gusts or feel the pressure coming on the main.

Then again, my local lake here is very gusty and swirly, if you get hit it's almost impossible to react quick enough.


Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: TEH] #231549
04/26/11 02:52 PM
04/26/11 02:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
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Matt M  Offline
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HULL SPEED

First, adjusting diamonds and spreader rake at most change only ½ of the sail camber and are micro adjustments. Don’t waste time worrying about those and concentrate on the macro stuff.

Keep up hull speed and the height on course is maximized and the effect of gusts in minimized. Increased pressure should cause you to accelerate not pop up. This requires anticipation and forcing yourself to not turn up into the wind until the boat has actually accelerated. If you have to ease the sheet just slightly first, OK. This requires anticipation and timing. If you wait until the boat is already tipping up, it is too late and you have already lost ground. You also now have to do a lot of sheeting or round up, both of which are slow. Once the boat accelerates you can then ride the height, but if you round up without going faster first, you will lose height on the course. (If you round up till you are slowing back down you also have gone too far and are subject to the same event next puff – keep it going) A high forward apparent wind will also significantly reduce the healing effect of the gusts.

It is hard to judge from the driving position and everyone on the course will always appear to be on a higher course with more speed. Concentrate on keeping speed with your own set-up. Riding in front with Riley driving gives me a very different perspective and seeing the effect of how she steers is significant. (I know she is very tired of me saying - steer straight) wink

Raising the boards is nice to keep the boat from tripping if the wind is huge and you have maxed everything else out. Running some traveler allows you to foot a bit in light wind with big chop so you can keep up some momentum. On a boat with a working rotator I have never been able to make the traveler option pay unless the wind was so high we should not have even been out.

Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: Matt M] #231551
04/26/11 03:34 PM
04/26/11 03:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
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Michigan
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I agree about diamonds and spreaders. I havent touched them in 4 years. I find that travling out a bit forces me to foot a bit and not perpetually be pinching with no power to get through the chop. Anyone who can seriously say they play the main a lot sailing uni is either lying or a much much better sailor than most of us by far. Matts points are good but I dont think he sails the 16 uni that much..... But he does sail an a cat a lot.

Last edited by PTP; 04/26/11 06:55 PM.
Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: PTP] #231555
04/26/11 04:25 PM
04/26/11 04:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline
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Depends on what you call playing the main a lot! Certainly not as much a 2-hander where the crew has the main upwind but it can still be done - the problem is driving straight while you are doing it! It's pretty tiring in the sort of wind you have to do it in though, you can't keep doing it for too long.

I'll be taking more notice of the initial acceleration after Matt's tip when I;m on the water next.

Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: DanTnz] #231566
04/27/11 01:20 AM
04/27/11 01:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline
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I believe you can play the main a lot, even uni. I sail 2-up but do the main, I never cleat and play the main with about one arm length. If you need more you're not depowered enough. If you only need one, playing the main becomes a lot easier. (sometimes I have to head up a couple of degrees to keep the trim with one arm length, but it is definately possible). But steering up al the time, makes the boat heel more and loose speed. Speed is definately key.
If you find the main to heavy, get yourself a good tapered mainsheet and you'll notice the difference!

Secondly, most difficult when sailing uni is that a lot of boats around you are sailing 2-up. Sail your own course. Upwind I tend to loose a bit on the 2-up teams, almost same angle but a bit slower. Downwind you can make up for that.
Last weekend we had about 15 knots. A guy weighing 72kgs sailed a 2007 Blade. His boards (long ones) were about 30cm's up, cunningham almost maxed and rotator pointing to the crossing of beam and hull.
His sail looked more like a windsurf sail then a catsail, that is the point you need to be at between 15 and 20 knots.
Try to trim your sail in light weather on the beach. Measure how many cunningham you need, where the rotator should be and how hard you should sheet in.

Gill


Falcon F16 - BEL666
Boats: TheBoatShop.be
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Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: Gilo] #231568
04/27/11 04:37 AM
04/27/11 04:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
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Tony_F18 Offline
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What kind of top battens are you using?
When its windy it helps do have at least the #1 top batten as stiff as possible, maybe even the #2 as well.

Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: Tony_F18] #231577
04/27/11 08:10 AM
04/27/11 08:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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Standard fiberfoam. My third batten is probably a bit too thick. When I broke one, I ordered the wrong one so I had to cut it down to size.

One point I'd like to add is that this does not necessarily just happen in the puffs. It's any time the wind is up. Other lighter sailors seem able to hold their boat down and I seem to have to pull boards or de-power in other ways.


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: Gilo] #231578
04/27/11 08:24 AM
04/27/11 08:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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TEH  Offline OP
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Thanks Gill, and everyone else. I have some things to try now - both in the puffs and when the wind is consistently high.


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Keeping the boat down [Re: TEH] #232722
05/23/11 05:59 PM
05/23/11 05:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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We had pretty good wind on Sunday this weekend at the first CRAW regatta. I was able to try some things in this thread. Mostly, I concentrated on maintaining speed and anticipating the gusts which were fairly easy to see coming. It was far from perfect, but at least I felt a little more in control of the boat.

A couple of other firsts this weekend. I crewed for 3 races. We were about 380 lbs on a Falcon in lighter winds on Saturday. Mixed results, but I enjoyed not having to do everything. I also pitchpoled the Blade for the first time in heavier winds on Sunday.


Blade F16 USA 725

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