You've gotta back that up with some facts!

Check the rule on batten pocket width. Then go measure yours....

While you are at it you can remove your dyneema trap lines

The traplines are legal.
From the IF18CA december minutes:

F.6.2 CONSTRUCTION
From 1st January 2011
(a) MANDATORY
(1) A forestay and bridles of 1 x19 stranded wire of minimum diameter of 4.0mm.
(2) Shrouds of 1 x 19 stranded wire of minimum diameter of 4.0mm.
(3) Trapeze wires of stranded wire or textile with a minimum diameter of 2.5mm.
(b) OPTIONAL
(1) A pair of diamond wires of 1 x 19 stranded wire of minimum diameter of 4.0mm.
The compliance date of 1st January 2011 would give any affected boats 12 months to comply.

Will measure my batten pockets later, you could just be making that up

Minutes from a meeting do not make them rules... The rules we sailed under at Balaton were the current Isaf approved rules. Published 26th April 2010.

Therefore, no dyneema trap lines were legal. Batten pockets on all boats are illegal and 1x7 3mm sidestays etc were still legal.

New rules are yet to be put in place and as such the regatta was governed by the April 2010 set.

I think the main difference here is that the trap lines will certainly be legal by 1-1-2012 as it says in the minutes (vote was unanimous), AFAIK this is not the case with the cloth issue.

The rules are the rules.... So we either sail to them as they are written or we all do whatever we like...

As a bit of reality here: there is no advantage in using the sticky cloth In The patches, but saving 500 grams in your rig from dyneema trap lines is a clear advantage. So as per the rules current for the event: who is more wrong??

There are plenty of boats breaching current rules and even the yet to be released rules and if the builders of these boats want to keep throwing stones at competitors they should expect a few big ones thrown back at them..

What made the batten pockets illegal?
Also could we get clearification on exactly what was the illegal cloth and how was it used?

Why weren't there more protests? Because everyone was in violation?

The batten pocket rule as per the April 2010 set allows for a max of 30mm wide batten pockets in mainsail and 25mm on jibs. Not one sail at the worlds complied. 

The cloth issue was simply a small area of reinforcement at the tack and clew of the main and jib. The body of the sails were fully compliant. Just a small area of stickyback was applied to the corners. 

The reason everyone (except for the one) let the issues slide is one of sportsmanship. The sails were measured by the head measurer and approved. Everyone knew of the issue with the stickyback from the first day of the worlds, I had people asking for my thoughts before the first race. My comment was that if you want to protest then you better do it on day one or let it be. 

So the bottom line.... the technical committee exercised "judgement".

The other word that sailors used (thanks Macca) was "sportsmanship"

so.... Legal... vs Illegal... (they all were illegal for many issues)

Fair vs Unfair... (Also called sportsmanship).... Everyone agreed the situation was Fair.

Just vs Unjust... (the powers that be... chose Fair/sportsmanship over Illegal.)

You need the proper stringency of rules to stop an A hole from blowing up the sportsmanship and going for an edge.... (See many many examples in the Tornado experience)... Eventually, they got the rules about right... but who knows... there is one born every minute... You don't need a phone book of rules to freeze time (per Matt M)

Unfortunately, it is a lot of work to keep the rules timely and relevant if you are going to value legal over fair.

There are some very helpful posts here for the discussion. Thanks Macca and Rich for the inside scoop and applicable class rules references.


Matt, I’m totally with you on your last sentence, it is sad (but a reality) that a minority of folks can and do choose to push the limits and ruin it for everyone else who is playing fairly. Rules are the primary hedge against this.


Mark, I agree with all of this (and you beat me to it!)…


Mark, this misses the point. Everyone wants the events to be fair. Rules help get you there, and when the rules are broken, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they need to be changed to have a fair game.


One thing I would like to see some discussion on is the authority of the technical committee. I didn’t see anything in the NOR giving a technical committee any authority at this event. The F18 class rules (section A8) state that the IJ is responsible to interpret the class rules. Can someone help me to understand this?


Now, the list of issues in the posts above poses a conundrum for the OA and IJ. Ultimately, the event is for the sailors, so usually the first thing to do is ask, what kind of event do the sailors want?

For example, I know that at Hobie regattas, if you hit a mark or another boat, you are expected to spin (or retire). At Opti regattas, unless you T-bone someone out of the blue, bumper boats and mark abuse is rampant and tolerated by the sailors. Sometimes the RC is asked if they intend to protest these clear violations, and the answer (typically) is “No, that’s the sailors’ responsibility.”


In the list of items above, I see the following (let’s just assume all of this is true):

1. A very small number of boats had sails constructed of non-approved materials.

2. All boats had sails that did not meet the required measurement for batten pockets.

3. Some number (not specified) of boats had dyneema trap lines instead of wires.

All of these are clearly violations of the class rules and thus illegal. Let’s pretend they all went to the IJ, what would happen?

1: Most likely, the boats protested for #1 would be tossed. This was a rule violation, and was only on a small number of boats. To be as fair as possible, they should have been warned before sailing and given a chance to change sails. If they did not, they should have been DSQ (or DNE) for the equipment violations for all races in which those sails were used. This should have been done on Day 1 to minimize the impact.

2: Most likely, this would have been dismissed. You can’t toss every boat (or there wouldn’t be an event), and unless someone could prove that a small number of boats had battens so large that there was a huge performance advantage, there’s really nothing to be done here.

3. This one is tougher. If all the boats violated the rule, then I could see it being dismissed. If a small number gained a significant advantage, then there would need to be some enforcement.


Definitely not as black-and-white as one would hope, but again, it comes down to the type of event that the sailors want to race. If no one chooses to protest, that may be an indication of sportsmanship, or may come back to bite the class later.

Thankfully for the IJ, these items did not go to protest. I would hate to have to decide on something where 50% of the boats were using the dyneema, for example…

Mike

Yes your right. ... I overstated/mistated.. my point..

Should have left it as... Its a lot of work to make sure the rules keep up with the sport. It is essential that they do though.

Your opti example makes the point that competitors (not umpires or RM) determine the game..

At the same time... It's a troublesome state... maybe if the boats had bumpers... that were removed as you moved up the color scale... I would be less concerned.

(Speaking of juniors... Who are the two girls from Sandy Hook Bay Catamaran Club who are scoring in the top 10 at the Ida Lewis 420 USSA championships this week? Way to go!... Ditto to the boys at the ISAF championships.... It's tough when you can't find a SL16 to sail before you travel the world to race)

Sail Innovation sail certificates were invalidated.

http://www.f18-international.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=144:emergency-ruling&catid=1:headlines-

I guess some people will want their money back...

Just guessing here... I would bet that the Worlds standings are set in stone having already been adjudicated.....

The question was... how do you sanction the sail loft?.. Apparently... you ban the sails from further f18 competition and hope the unhappy owners of now illegal sails sue them and demand their money back. Its probably the best outcome you could hope for. You can't ban the loft from making more sails without the class getting sued by the loft.

The T class did that with the Cuban fiber sails after the Olympics. A few unhappy owners of cuben fiber bolts.

Now the interesting question... would you protest these guys in your regional regatta for using the sail...

Will this change any other events if their results are thrown out? EuroCat, Texel, ect ?

No protests are pending.... Hard to see how you can reopen a regatta result.

It will never come to that, the sails no longer have certificates so they wont be able to complete their entry into an F18 regatta (regional or not).

That's crazy that a loft would be producing illegal sails....I'd be getting my money back on those for sure, or at least having them re-cut to meet spec (and the loft better be doing that for free)

Stupidity reigns high again in the f18 class....

Of all the sails certificates that are on the list published, there are from memory less than 6 that are in breach of the reinforcing rule. The rest of the sails on the list are perfectly legal, the only crime is that they are recently measured sails from that loft.

A more logical and sane solution would have been to order all sail innovation sails measured in the last 12 months be remeasured by a certain date. Then the baby is not tossed with the bath water.