There is some pressure to make changes to the Hobie 14 and Hobie 16 class rules. These are shown on the Hobie Class website at www.hobieclass.com in the "Rules Forum". Feedback from USA sailors is needed!

Here are my comments. This goes for the Hobie 14 and 16 proposed changes:

The best thing about the 14 and 16 has been that they are "simple boats". Most of the proposed changes defeat this. I have personally owned 5 Hobie 16's and raced them for many years along with the 14 as well. I have also worked as a dealer before working for the factory in the USA. I have seen these kinds of changes from several perspectives and witnessed the negative response to some. From my experience, these kinds of things are not necessarily good for the class. In my opinion, there is no point in making continuous changes to the older classes that fragment them more and more. There is a thought process that says "making changes might invigorate a class", but honestly, I think it just alienates most of the class in the lower ranks. They just want to sail the boat as is. New stuff is a cost and a learning curve.

I can agree with the rotation control and perhaps the downhaul, but not the mast step ball and outhaul changes. That would be a big pain in the butt to retrofit and I don't see the need. Trying to make this mast base "upgrade" on an older 14 or 16 would cause some real headaches for the boat owners. This is not simple and would be relatively expensive. There are some real problems with a freely rotating mast if the rotation control is not properly used. Over rotation can cause batten breakage, shroud wire and mast failures. I prefer the idea of cutting the existing stops back (IF they want to) and leaving a safety "maximum" stop if someone wants to add the rotation control arm. That is simple and achieves the most important thing... rotation limit control.

It seems this is mostly being driven by Hobie Cat France. Hobie USA has not made a proposal for a major change... we don't see a need for it. The 16 sailors that I have spoken to are acting like a bunch of deer in headlights. They are somewhat confused by the process. They see this as being somehow forced on them regardless of their opinions as though we HAVE to do these things. The active 16 racers I have spoken with all agree that the rotation control is the main tem of interest. The downhaul purchase idea is acceptable and the 16 jib halyard system (not shown in this Hobie 14 based email) would require a secure cleat to back up any jaw cleat.

So, my proposal:

Leave the step system alone and allow the addition of a rotater bar. The stops can be cut back a little, but a maximum rotation angle should be determined for safety.
Allow the downhaul adjustment system.
Allow the addition of a cam cleat in the jib halyard system, but require it in-line with the existing horn cleat for safety.

The rest of the proposals (outhaul, base/ball step system) are just not needed and are difficult and likely expensive upgrades for all existing boats.

US sailors need to make their opinions known to the IHCA rules committee. Look at the proposed changes at http://www.hobieclass.com /Rules Forum and then Email them at rules@hobieclass.com with your comments.

<Grapevine?
I have never understood why Hobie insists on keeping the American boats so antiquated while they quickly upgrade and improve the Euro boats. >>

Hobie USA adhears to the Hobie Class rules and allows the sailors to decide what changes should be made. The basic concept of a "One Design" class is lost when manufacturers constantly make changes to the design. This concept prohibits us from just making any old change we want to make just to sell a few more boats. This has been a problem in Europe whether driven by the sailors there or not.

Hello mmiller
My name is Volker Lorenzen and I am Chairman for Hobie 14 in the North of Germany.
As you know the 14 worlds has been take place here in my area in July and I was involved in organisation.
Because I had to organize boats for sailors from oversea I had contact to many 14 sailors worldwide and so I started asking them about a new mastrotation for the 14.
Everybody saw some problems with the upgrade.
It is difficult to build a contruction that is cheap. Also older 14s have to be changed easily.
The 14s worldwide see some problems. So I agree with you and say that we have to be careful in making changes on the Hobie 14 and later the 16.
But it is to see that 90% of the sailors I know wish some changes at the mastrotation.
Here in germany we have 100 sailors in a rancing-list every year. The sailors who want no changes are in the minority.
Also the sailors from the Netherlands, Denmark, South Africa, Australia and Brazil told me that the most sailors agree with this changes.
Also they see some problems, but the discussion goes into right direction.
Since we have allowed the trapeze on the 14 it is sailed with more and more mast-rake.
But it is not possible to sail with more mast-rake, because of the old mastrotation. Everybody modifies it here in Europe and the EHCA tollerate this.
It's true. We have to be sensible for the problems. But do not forget that the most 14 regatta-sailors want some changes on the mast-rotation.
At the next meeting of the German Hobie Class Association I want that the members decide like this:

A: Modifikation on the old rotation is allowed.
B: A mast-controller is allowed and this mast-controller can be fixed from the trapeze
C: German Class Association should say that a mast-rotation like on the Tiger is the best for Hobie 14. German Class Association is waiting for better offers. It has to be a contruction with lower costs. Older 14s has to be changed easy.
If this problems are eliminated, Germany will decide for a new rotation.
D: Germany will bring this idea into European Council and World Council.


Many 14 sailors arround the whole world agree with me.

(I have to appologize for bad English, I have no dictionary here, but I wanted to give you a quick answer. I hope you understand everything)

Hobie Regards...

Volker

Hey guys!!

I'm all in favor of:

1. Foam battens
2. 4:1 downhaul NOT usable from the trapeze.

That's it!!

It's too easy; keep it simple. If you want fancy rotation systems, etc, then I advise you go sail another boat (FX-One).

Bob Curry
Hobie 14 US National / World Champion

Matt,
I think everybody agrees that changes are necessary otherwise the Hobie 16 will become obsolete.
In times where challenging new boats pop up one has to keep an "experienced Hobie 16" up to date.
Europe is undoubted the biggest representant in Hobie sailing worldwide. This has led to a lot of innovations for the Hobie 16, just some examples:
- Carbon Fibre Rudders
- Extreme mast rake
- Euro jib halyard system
- centre cleated jib halyard camcleat

All that has been very successful and the (European) factory had found cheap solutions for that.

Now, as it was discusssed at the IHCA, we have the proposals on the table for the Hobie 16 upgrades.

- better mast step and rotation
- downhaul adjustable for the trapeze
- jib halyard adjsutable from the trapeze
- outhaul

All these changes are very promising and to my mind they can be easily (and cheap) achieved.

But, we should also allow two options, the present tuning kits and the new ones: IF YOU do not want to change your boat, so be it, but allow the others to do so.
Both systems should be class legal!

I have raced over here in the US since another two years and back in Europe since 15 years and yes, I can follow the
thoughts here in the US. But please just think how many sailors would be affected here in the US? 50? I do not know, but in Europe it is 50 in one regatta and I assume about 500 overall.
We all should take this inot consideration!

Of course all this can not be changed within 2 days, therefore there should be a changeover period!

So, let´s go for it!

Hang deeper and sail faster!

Fritz

Fritz I like your thinking,but your estimate of effecting 50? in the u.s. is a slight under estimate.I am from Canada and go down to the div 7 regattas in the u.s.There is 30+ boats that are keenly interested to the changes on the 16.
Yes I think the changes would be good as long as they are affordable and do not make older boats obsolete.
Mike Madge

Mike,
I know I was just guessing but I just wanted to point out the proportion. Sorry.

Fritz

No harm.Love to be part of some of those Euro events.
Mike

Thanks everyone for getting involved! This was the whole point of my posting on the subject. Be sure you make your feeling known to the IHCA at www.hobieclass.com as that is where it is all happening.

I have been informed by Hobie Cat France that the mast rotation proposal has been withdrawn due to geometry differences in the mast pivot point height that would make the old and new step systems too different. It is deemed unacceptable that the new system would change the geometry of the rig.

We seem to be coming to the conclusion of the following as being generally accepted:

Mast rotation arm / limiter (does not require a rotation system change. May require a maximum rotation stop angle)

Increased downhaul and cleat change.

Increased outhaul (this is already approved I am told)

Jib Halyard cam cleat system

Refinements are still required on how to do these.

We must keep in mind that the changes should be for "ease of use" and not speed enhancements. They should be easily upgradable at low cost. An older, non-upgraded boat should not be at a speed disadvantage therefore discouraging sailors who do not wish to do the upgrades.

There is a general rule in the Class rules that fits this issue perfectly:

2. INTENT AND OBJECTIVE
Hobie Catamarans are designed to be easy to sail with the least amount of trouble to owners. Boat and component changes, which have no direct bearing upon boat speed, are the only changes allowed. The intent and objective of the INTERNATIONAL HOBIE CLASS ASSOCIATION (IHCA) RULES are:

a) To keep each boat as equal, simple and cost free as possible by rigidly maintaining, without deviation, the one-design features of the Hobie Cat for class racing.

b) To increase boat speed only through the use of racing tactics and sailing skills.

Check www.haveahobieday.com for the discussion of European Hobie 14 sailors. Interesting!!!

It seems that every 2-3 years there's a new hot, high tech "faster" cat on the scene that some folks must have. For what ever reason they aren't content to race a classic, like the H16, in a strict one design format. This "got to have the newest thing" attitude has contributed, in my opinion second only to the jet ski, to the dilution and decline of the fleets. Santioning an updated H16 class and an original H16 class will result in even futher dilution.

Part of the H16's appeal is its simplicity, low cost on the used market and availability of parts. For those wanting all the fancy things (spinnakers, carbon fiber, titanium, mylar, tri-radial cuts and more strings to pull) just move up to the more modern designs and leave the classics alone.

I have been copied in on the euro discussion and I like the direction they are going now. Just add the rotator arm and leave the geometry and mast base alone. I kind of think I like leaving the stops there kind of as a safety factor against rotating past 90 degrees.

cheers
Bill Jeffers
H16, H17, H14