I'm stirring the pot without intention to do so or maybe I do. What would be the process/requirement to obtain a national vote on any subject requiring one before the NAHCA? I believe now, after rejecting the idea a couple years ago to bring in the person that wanted to chair the NAHCA whom wanted to extend an invitation to non-hobies. I've relized the effect of my resentment at the time has helped to cripple the potential influx of participation to this activity. Perhaps a national campaign from a grassroots level is what's needed? I am fickle.

In my case at least, I dropped my NAHCA membership after all this 'x-boat' stuff started. If a vote ever came to be, I'ld probably join again just so I could vote. I imagine that a number of folks that felt that x-boats should be welcomed are no longer NAHCA members - so the results might be a bit skewed (I really have no idea if that might be a significant number).

Jake,
I'm a NAHCA member, devoted to one-design (and frustrated a great deal because its hard to always get enough H20s in my area out) and I'm not against the open class. I also think Mark Schneider over dramatizes the point a little by listing all the boats Hobie makes; no one really sees anywhere close to all those boats at a regatta. However, he missed the Getaway which right now is the largest selling Hobie model states-side. Someday those recreation sailors will want to race their boats.

The reality is that no matter how much any of us stirs the pot, pro open class or con open class, the status quo will remain for some time. And that is the Hobie fleet/division structure will continue to provide most of the framework for catamaran racing and will continue promoting one design while alowing an open class to race portsmouth style in order to fill out the regatta.

As Mark mentioned, we just finished a regatta at Gunpowder where 4 H20s raced one another while starting in the open fleet. Was it ideal? No. Its no fun to get off the line with an A cat on your lee bow knowing that in a few minutes he will be gassing you and you will have to tack away. I don't want to race the A cat, I want to race the H20 on the other side of him. But its all part of the game; avoiding obstacles while concentrating on the other H20s. It certainly makes you plan ahead so as to not get blanketed by a spin boat coming off of A mark thereby allowing the H20 behind you to catch up or pass. We should all stir the pot less and enjoy each other's company. Its the "is, what is".

David,

I'm with you. I think that in general the x-boaters understand their place at these events and that there are people fighting for regional Hobie points. I try to stay out of those guys way as much as possible in consideration of that. I can identify with Hobie Class racing and am planning to buy a Hobie 17 next spring so I can jump in there with our local guys. SEE! letting me race my NACRA at NAHCA events actually influenced me to buy another Hobie brand boat. There are advantages to inviting x-boats. However, if Paul U. keeps up this crap I might just look again at that Inter-17 instead.

Hi David

My point of listing all of the Hobies in order of increasing speed was simply to refute the argument that one design Hobie sailors of slower boats were envious of the faster X class boats which was causing the demise of one design racing. Ergo... eliminate the X class as a source of temptation. Hobie has attempted to sell many faster boats over the years (usually with the Hobie one design mantra)

I have to tell you... I don't understand how a one design fleet of 1, EG Hobie 14 at GP II or 1 H20 at Barnegat is promoting one design racing.

In my view... this is a failure of our organization to make good on this one design promise. If we can't deliver one design racing...we should not pretend that we are running a one design race. Eventually people get annoyed and quit!

For example, CBYRA insists on at least 7 boats pre registered and on the line before they will schedule a one design start (solves your rounding problem with a spin boat) .... otherwise.. you are in a PHRF class.

When does "frustrated a great deal because its hard to always get enough H20s in my area out" result in the" Ah the hell with it... this is no fun... I will get a big boat" set in. If I am the single boat at a regatta...WHY would I return?

Don't you think we should try to pro actively change things (ANYTHING) BEFORE that outcome? (IMO) About the only thing we have control over here is the schedule. My suggestion is that each fleet of similar boats or one design boats decide what schedule they can reasonably sustain and announce it. For example, The Hobie 20's will support X, Y and Z regattas out of the 6 or so Division regattas. ...and so on for the Spinaker boats (I20's and F18's and F18HT's) A boats etc etc. Perhaps, you can beat the drum and get some of the boats in the weeds out for this much smaller schedule.

Pre registration offers TREMENDOUS advantages to the organizers. (EG the scoring progam can automatically suck in the pre registered sailors saving HOURS of time) If you must pre register... you are likely to ensure that your schedule permits you to go because you have made this commitment and your money will be forfeit if you don't. Perhaps we should set up a internet based preregistration system which takes payments by credit card. If you want to pay at the gate... Fine but you will pay a hefty premium for your convience and for our hassle of registering you at the door (non existant volunteers). And on the plus side.. ONLine lists of pre registered sailors usually drums up interest and support.

Of course, I am all for combining these small psuodo one design classes with similar performance open boats and going Portsmouth racing in this day and age. PS the Hobie 18's have voiced this complaint about Hobie 17's on the start line for years!)

One thing we can count on... if we continue operating the same way... we can count on the same results.

Look forward to any suggestions that you may have


Take care
Mark

(I just know that this hurricane is going south and Saturday and Sunday will be top 10 sailing days of the year... Sigh)

Jake,
I don't think Paul's comment is really going anywhere as the local fleets that run the races are going to continue doing what they feel is best for them. So go ahead and get that H17. It forms the most stable turnout in the mid-Atlantic area next to the 16s.

Mark, my frustration won't necessarily lead me to a big boat; the same situations exist there, only one has spent a lot more money. PHRF or portsmouth is still handicap racing and you have to get out the calculator at the end to see who won. My frustrations also wouldn't necessarily lead me to give up my H20 for another big boat as the lack of critical mass for one-design racing exists all through the big cat classes, with pockets of exceptions, of course.

You may have a good point with pre-registration although I would be concerned about unintended consequences of making the commitment to attend harder--wouldn't want to see fewer people showing up. The idea of each design in a region getting their skippers together to decide on which races they will support is a great one. Its what I hoped to accomplish this year with our local H20 series. The results are not conclusive and not terribly encouraging. But I think this idea has potential. Last year Chris and I proposed fleet captains for each class in the division. The captains would lead the drive to generate more attendance. The idea is sound, but never got off the ground. Each division and its corresponding fleets should take a serious look at how many skippers are going to division races. Our fleet, for example, has a very low attendance record for division racing. Focusing on fewer races that skippers would actually attend would be a good step forward. Maybe its not the same regattas for each class, but that's fine. Each class would be more assured of starts and good competition at the regattas they do attend. Your efforts in this area, through CRAC, are very much appreciated.

BTW, how about all CRAC sailors get together at Galesville on Sunday for a pick up race? Or, if they're racing at Soloman's, we go down there and blitz the Lightnings?

David
H20

I'm still getting the H17 - that stuff just really iritates me! I continue to have crew reliability problems and the H17 is the perfect answer. I plan to race the 6.0 (unless a large H17 turnout is expected) and if crew bails at the last minute, I just hook up the 17 instead. Viola!

Jake,

This attitude makes me very ill as well. I do not feel you will ever be unwelcome at one of our division races. Good luck on finding a 17, I have also heard our top Hobie 20 sailor and son are going to 17s. Should be a great fleet next year.

Jake,Glad to see you are joining the growing fleet of Hobie 17's. IMHO it is a great boat, but I have raced one since 1987, and my son his since 1989. BTW the solution to problems at the windard mark is the additon of the offset mark. This helps prevent boats, especially spin boats, from coming down on boats going to the mark.

Caleb Tarleton

Man... you guys have WAY too much time on your hands.

My personal perspective?

Hobie Alter had a great idea and started something wonderful. It has now gone a bit off course wether from need or not... It is now a problem. Even considering X class is damaging to the original concept. The concept of "you want to have some real fun? Join us and sail a Hobie at a HOBIE event". Not join us and sail... join us and sail a HOBIE. If they had allowed just any boat in the events early on... it would have been a total failure. Think about it.

I would imagine that perhaps one of the major factors leading to the huge Hobie following in the 70's was not due to Hobie marketing but due largely because there were not anywhere near the same proliferation of available catamaran designs that we have today. I am also guessing that Hobie had the greatest dealer network and distribution system. Perhaps Hobie made a mistake by allowing other manufacturer's boats play at their parties but think what might have happened had they not:

Every time NAHCA tries to make a stand and do something that the catamaran community disagrees with, another racing organization arises. If NAHCA had firmly not allowed other x-boats to participate, those x-boaters have to do something so they have somewhere to race. They would create their own organization. One might clearly surmise that if this exclusion policy had ever actually taken place, Hobie would not only be fighting to maintain market share with boat sales, but would be struggling to keep NAHCA alive. Think about it.

Hi Jake

A little bit of history. Hobie fleets did not screw up and invite open class to their events... They invited open class becasue they NEEDED more sailors to compete so that their HOBIE events would be economically viable. They were our friends as well and the attitude of the more the merrier trumped the hobie religion. Many fleets merged into regional cat clubs or folded

NAHCA and Hobie had nothing to do with approving changes... they just are powerless to stem the tide of people doing what it takes to run succesful events and go racing.

Mark,

I think I worded that incorrectly - Like you, I do not think it was a mistake to invite x-boats to Hobie events...quite the contrary. Amongst a number of other reasons, I think the inclusion of other boats is why NAHCA does not have national competition as a catamaran organization and was (and will continue to be) crucial to their survival.

Jake,
What do you mean by, "NAHCA does not have national competition"?

At this time, there is not another catamaran organization that has a nationwide operating racing structure to the degree of organization of NAHCA.

Hello to all,

As the original poster, I thought it wise to give a brief follow up. First, contrary to some replies, the post was not to ruffle feathers, nor make a statement. It was simply to see how other Hobie fleets handled the A class cat. Somehow, the conversation drifted to X class and the acceptance or denial of such.

That topic leads me to the following. As a believer in the supply side market system, I understand that a financial “contract” exists on a voluntary basis. Both buyer and seller agree to such exchange, and both expect to be “better off”. Using this rationale, I sold my Inter 20 (rather sad day, as that is a great, great boat to sail), and I purchased an A cat.

The purchase, as stated was in a group sale, so that I (we) would have an ‘instant fleet’ out of the box. Shortly thereafter, word got out of the ‘mass’ purchase and the infamous letter (email) arrived. Voila! Instant topic for catsailor.

I am surprised at some of the remarks made, and even understand them somewhat. I can applaud and even appreciate loyalty to brands. However, understanding the S and D curve, and the above theory of voluntary exchange for goods and services, I must now consider the following.

Why would I want to buy a product that is not going to give me satisfactory results? Indeed, if 7-10 like boats show up at a race and are merely used to generate revenue, i.e.: not scored, awarded, and honored. I ask again, why would I want to participate? There are other options available that would be beneficial to both parties involved. Thus far, that is my mind set.

In all my web surfing, I have come across several Hobie fleets that recognize and award X boats. There are even Hobie fleets that have more than one X start! Hopefully, this attitude can prevail up here in the Northwest. If the powers that be think that ought not to happen, then all I can say is THANK YOU for all the past races, and good times and memories.

I suppose that is enough for now,

Michael (Interless! In Seattle, Waiting for A cat)

so, im somewhat confused..is the ban just for the As, or for all non-hobie boats?????