As many of you know the H16 is currently the International youth cat - ages 17 - 21 (some are trying to mess with this classification though), but I was thinking what if you we developed the Turbo H14 as the junior cat - ages 12 - 16. We have a Turbo H14 that the juniors use on our beach and the kids have a lot of fun with it weather as a solo cat (one up) or as a turbo team racing cat. I am kind of looking at the various cats available for juniors, as it won't be to long before my kids are racing cats. My problem is, as I am sure some of you have experienced is “price,” the Hobie Dragon is quite expensive and has a spinnaker which may be a good or bad thing - I have found that most kids just want to get out and sail, and not have to worry about an extra sail like the spinnaker during their junior years. I have found when they get to the age of 16 or 17 is when they really want some more thrills and that is when the H16 comes in. Other junior cats I have considered is the Wave which is nice but really does not have the speed (except in very strong winds) or thrill factor to keep kids hooked, there are a few other cats available but once again they are expensive and really not a good preparatory boat for the H16. I am really thinking sense the H14 is available on 5 continents, is very affordable to maintain, are available used everywhere and new also (even though they do not build them in the USA anymore we can get them shipped from Europe or Brazil), for a very affordable price the H14 may just be the ticket for junior cat racing. What do you all think? I really need to start thinking about this now as my kids are fast approaching the catamaran ready stage.<br><br>
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: H14 Turbo as a junior racing cat?
[Re: sail-s]
#2414 09/11/0109:13 PM09/11/0109:13 PM
When I was 14 I started sailing a H14. My father had a H16, but after being involved in a couple of wicked pitch poles, I was somewhat frightened by the boat. We used to two-up the H14 in stronger winds and it was a pleasure to sail solo in mild to moderate winds as a young teenager. I never had a chance to sail a turbo version, but I used the boat to transition to the H16 that I have been sailing for the last two decades. This would make a great development class for daggerless cats such as the H16. I think it's a very good idea. <br> <br>Cheers!<br><br>
Re: H14 Turbo as a junior racing cat?#2415 09/12/0106:14 PM09/12/0106:14 PM
Thanks for the reply "htimst." Now I am wondering if we can get anyone else to respond on using the H16 Turbo for a junior training/racing cat, and if anyone has actually had experience using the H14 turbo with 2 junior age sailors. We may be on the verge of a new junior cat class and actually an affordable one, with these 2 benefits we can be quite successful. Its strange as I write this and a few other responses on this forum I am struggling to keep the tears out of my eyes as I think about the terrorist attack yesterday, seems I just can't get it out of my mind, sorry just can't help making this comment. I am just trying to keep my life fairly normal by talking about the sport I love and keep my mind occupied. <br> <br>
Re: H14 Turbo as a junior racing cat?
[Re: sail-s]
#2416 09/12/0108:59 PM09/12/0108:59 PM
From my understanding there are H14 fleets in America. I have the recent NAHCA new letter and almost every race I looked at has H14's participating in fleet racing. There are not the big numbers like in Europe or South America but the turn outs are much large than the Hobie Wave turnouts. Now that I think about it I am going to try to contact the fleets with these H14 fleets and see what interest I can generate there. <br><br>
Re: H14 Turbo as a junior racing cat?
[Re: sail-s]
#2418 09/16/0110:22 AM09/16/0110:22 AM
I've always thought that the Hobie-14 would make a good cat alternative to the Laser. If you look at the age classes for that boat, I think the 14 fits there. Perhaps for earliest age sailors, the Wave is more appropriate as it is more forgiving. A little later, the 14 should be used all the way through old age! First as a the normal uni and then with the added turbo jib and trap. A great step up to the speed and power of the 16 and others. The 16 obviously is a two person boat, so the 14 can fill an overlapping role as a singlehander. After having spent some time sailing a 14, I'm convinced that if you learn how to sail that boat effectively you've got a great basis for sailing any other cat. You get immediate feedback as to weight and sail trim, as well as tacking technique. But I'm not sure that it should be the first boat a young sailor climbs aboard, could be wrong...<br><br>Keith Chapman, Annapolis, Md. <br>H-18 <br>Northstar 500 (monoslug) <br>WRCRA - www.wrcra.org
I am a youth sailor myself and I have not had any problems on the Hobie 16. All the talk I have heard among other youth sailors is to make the Youth boat a more complex and bigger boat. Personally, I think the 16 is a great boat for a youth boat. I do not think any youth sailors would like the idea of a Hobie 14 Turbo as a youth boat. I race the 14 at the frostbite series in Rhode Island and I have noticed that the boat handles horribly with a lot of wieght on it. It should not be raced as a double handed boat which would defeat the purpose of having an easier boat for youth sailors. The youths would have to single hand it which would make it harder for the youth sailor. <br>In my fleet all the youth sailors learned on Hobie 16s and one kid who only weighs 95 pounds owns his own Hobie 16 and races it. Not to many youths who can sail on their own weigh less than 95 pounds and if the kid in our fleet can handle a 16 any youth should be able to. <br> <br>-Todd Riccardi <br>Hobie 18 #16772 <br>Hobie 14 #194<br><br>
Re: H14 Turbo as a junior racing cat?
[Re: wildtsail]
#2420 09/16/0111:17 PM09/16/0111:17 PM
Todd, <br>At what age did you start sailing the 16? As crew, skipper or both? What was the age of your skipper/crew? When I think of youth sailing I think of the range from absolute beginner at maybe 10 years old or so through adult. There's room for a range of boats for kids to move up in steps. Some may move up sooner as skills improve. My suggestion was to use the 14 like the Laser, which is singlehanded. You're right - the 14 stinks as a two person boat. I would not suggest that even with the turbo set up. But, in our area, kids seem to learn on singlehanded boats from optis to Lasers and then move on to two person boats. Most likely so that at an early age everyone gets to drive and learn boat handling - which I think is a good idea (everybody gets tiller time) that should be carried over to cats. In the dinghy world, there seem to be a good number of kids under 95 pounds that can sail on their own (at least in optis). <br> <br>The 14 can be difficult, which is why I would not suggest it for the earliest age of sailors. A good intermediate boat before moving to the 16 and as a singlehanded trainer for honing skills, again, in the similar way the Laser is used in youth sailing (and beyond in the dinghy world). And I still believe if you learn to handle to the 14 right you'll have developed a great feel for sailing cats that can apply to any boat you sail. So, I'm not saying replace the 16 with the 14 as a youth boat, I'm saying it would be good to use it as a stepping stone for younger youth sailors to move up to the 16. <br> <br>Just some thoughts.<br><br>Keith Chapman, Annapolis, Md. <br>H-18 <br>Northstar 500 (monoslug) <br>WRCRA - www.wrcra.org
Keith, <br>I started somewhere between 10 and 12. I forgot exactly when. I was skippering and crewing at the age. <br>Don't forget the Laser has 3 different rigs designed just for youth and lightweight sailors. The standard 14 rig can still be a bit much for a small youth sailor in heavy wind. Not to mention that small youth sailor would probably have trouble tacking it in high winds. I think the best bet is just to start them out on a 16 either as skipper with a heavy, more experience crew or as crew with an experienced skipper and eventually switch them over to skipper when they are ready. As long as your looking for a simple, easy stepping stone why not consider the wave then go to the 14 and then the 16. <br>-Todd<br><br>
Re: H14 Turbo as a junior racing cat?
[Re: wildtsail]
#2422 09/17/0109:10 AM09/17/0109:10 AM
We need to define what is youth and what is a junior boat. Junior in the ISAF is 12 – 16, and Youth is 17 – 21. So the question is what is a good junior cat and that is why I thought a Turbo H14 would work as most juniors are light and the H14 would be great as a 2 person cat but then again maybe not, and maybe we should use it just as a solo cat for juniors instead and maybe we should develop different rigs for the H14 as well. The whole point is having a junior boat that is a preparatory boat for the H16. I started out on El Toro’s at age 6, and moved to the H14 at age 11, and finally went on to the H16 around age 14 (continued to sail the H14 as well). I also like the Opti for the very young but the problem is they are way to expensive for me to by 4 of them for my kids. So for the very young some little 7 to 8 ft. dinghy would work (I am using the Access Dinghy 2.3) but when they start getting to the age of 10 – 12 its time to move to a cat and that is the age range when we all need to decide what cat to indorse as a JUNIOR (not youth – the youth cat is the H16) cat. I think the choice is fairly simple its either the H14 or Wave, but once again I just do not think the Wave is the boat to prepare our kids or kid to sail in the youth worlds (on the H16) and H16 worlds but then again I may be wrong. Lets keep this dialogue going! I have not been talking to my daughter about this and so I need to do so, lets make sure to include our kid(s) in this process, and to have juniors and youth age sailors also give us their input as we have had by one youth so far.<br><br>
Re: H14 Turbo as a junior racing cat?
[Re: wildtsail]
#2423 09/17/0101:54 PM09/17/0101:54 PM
Todd, <br>Your last sentence is exactly what I was thinking - Wave, 14, then 16 and others. Different size sails for the 14 could also extend its range, like the Laser. My niece just got a nice 14 turbo, and I'm the one who will get to help her, but I think a Wave might be an easier boat to get her started on. However, the 14 was free, so that counts for something! <br> <br>It's fun to watch the young kids in the Optis - the low rig means they can be safe in a lot of conditions and they really fly when the wind kicks up! Fun to watch, and I bet it helps add confidence too. <br> <br>Awhile ago I put a message on the old forum that was an open call to the designers of the world to come up with an intro cat design for the youngest sailors that captured the spirit of the opti - with the added provision that clubs could actually build the design inexpensively from non-exotic materials (just the way the Opti started as a class) and different rigs to keep the boat interesting as sailors grow in confidence (like the Laser rigs you mention). I had more than a few ideas for this that I laid out. After initial training on this kind of a boat they could move up to the next cat in the chain. It still seems like a great idea to me, but the response was thundering silence. Perhaps because a designer might only make money selling plans instead of boats, I don't know. There are a few designs out there that might fill the bill with a few mods... <br> <br>Cheers!<br><br>Keith Chapman, Annapolis, Md. <br>H-18 <br>Northstar 500 (monoslug) <br>WRCRA - www.wrcra.org