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Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #240813
12/04/11 10:34 PM
12/04/11 10:34 PM
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
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Rob
One of the things that seems to be an issue with the F14 is that each individual is trying to achieve something different out of it. Some people want to resurrect old 14's and soup them up...others want a inexpensive mass produced one design boat that appeals to the masses, and then there is Darryl and Berny who set out to build the fastest 14' they could....I am attracted to the later...I want the fastest possible 14' I can build.

There are many boats to choose from if one wants to be put into a "design straight jacket" but only the F14, at this point in time, allow for such freedom in design and construction. It is very easy to fall into the trap that many cat sailors do...that being...the minute that they put their money down on a particular class boat they fight tooth and nail to keep it the same, less their "investment" will loose value. Unfortunately no one told them that no boat is a good investment...especially a beach cat....it is a consumable...not a investment. At some point all this will shake out and a trend will develop...until then it is what it is. enjoy the freedom while you can.

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Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #240830
12/05/11 01:43 PM
12/05/11 01:43 PM
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Seeker,
I agree with you, the fastest 14' possible will be great.
But then why kid yourselves about getting kids into cat sailing?
A fast, expensive, delicate boat is not going to attract kids into cat sailing, a cheap, fun adaptable class where everyone is welcome and competitive.
From what you described the F14 is not that?
I'm not having a go, I'm just confused?


Rob Aitken
Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #240836
12/05/11 03:02 PM
12/05/11 03:02 PM
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Rob
Didn't intend to confuse. I am looking at the F14 from a personal perspective. What someone else wants or needs is for them to decide. When I was younger I may have wanted a smaller version of something...but I didn't want a dumb down version.

Not all are here to promote youth sailing as their main goal, but welcome it as an added benefit if it should happen. Personally, I am building to fulfill my need for a fun, fast, after work pocket rocket...those with goals to energize youth sailing can pursue them as they see fit, and design a boat with that in mind. It is all good and each one can find satisfaction in meeting their needs...as varied as they may be. An F14 can be pretty much anything you want it to be at this point....explore the possibilities.

Re: Formula 14 development [Re: r.aitken96] #240839
12/05/11 04:13 PM
12/05/11 04:13 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,349
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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G'day Rob my thoughts on the F14 is a pathway, for a beginner wanting a new cat (which is very rare) the F12 is more than enough for most, then if you want new and more you take a big step to the F14 which is a boat you never have to stop sailing unless you want to step up to the next level. Once you get to Aus you will find no end of cheap 14ft cats to get people into sailing and theres heaps of them out there sailing. I have 5 cats in my backyard 14ft or under and they're all probably 25yrs old. We need to have a pipe line of powerful new cats with square top rigs coming through so that in 2o yrs we don't all have 50 yr old cats for the kids to sail on.
If you want a cheaper option for a fast cat consider getting a good 14ft Arrow (the fastest standard 14ft cat you can trapeze on) with the new square top main then if you want you could put a spinnaker on it.
good luck with your boat hunting


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Cant have two Ram Raiders at the same time so not named yet
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Arrow 1576
Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #241241
12/13/11 08:58 PM
12/13/11 08:58 PM
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
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Started to build the jig for curved dagger boards...need the boards...and trunks before moving forward on my hulls.


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Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #241382
12/15/11 03:21 AM
12/15/11 03:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Are you building asymmetrical or symmetrical boards?


John Alani
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Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #241394
12/15/11 09:35 AM
12/15/11 09:35 AM
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Jalani...I am leaning towards symmetrical...been trying to pay close attention to what the "A" cat community has been working on over at Sailing Anarchy on the curved boards thread. At this point it seem that a case could be made for both asymmetrical and symmetrical ... my gut instinct tells me that it would be much easier to get the asymmetrical boards "wrong".

With so many variables already in play, I think I will go a bit more conservative on this aspect of a fairly ambitious undertaking...LOL. With all the experimentation concerning angle of attack, board radius and foil section...with multiple versions showing promise... it seems like no one has the best design locked down and there is a lot of latitude as to what works...with the only real consensus among the various proponents being that, regardless of asymmetrical or symmetrical, the top "curved foils" have an edge over straight boards.

If it doesn't work? Modify...Modify...Modify! I will make the trunks slightly oversize to accept changes.

Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #241414
12/15/11 01:39 PM
12/15/11 01:39 PM
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Essex, UK
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Kudos for trying it - I'd love to have a little experiment myself but doubt my ability to turn out anything useable smile

The older of my 2 Stealths would make a great testbed for trying out such ideas if I was so inclined......


John Alani
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Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #241420
12/15/11 03:04 PM
12/15/11 03:04 PM
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
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I am going with a 1.45 meter radius....same as the new DNA boards. Still trying to nail down the exact cord and foil I want to use.

You ought to give it a go on your old Stealth...might breathe new life into her and it would certainly be interesting to see how she did against her sister boat.

Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #241450
12/15/11 10:44 PM
12/15/11 10:44 PM

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Scarecrow
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I had a crisis of confidence earlier this year (or recognised that you can't be an expert in everything) and asked Richard Roake about foil design. Based upon this conversation unless you want to play around with xfoil or similar go with a Eppler E836 and approximately 12% thickness to chord ratio. Assuming you are designing for an adult driving from trapeze you are going to need a bigger foil than the A cat as you are going slower, have similar righting moment but a shorter heeling arm (mast). So I'd go widish on the section maybe 175mm (7").


Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #241470
12/16/11 10:58 AM
12/16/11 10:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
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Scarecrow, I greatly appreciate your input. Your recommendations are spot on to what I was thinking. It makes me feel a lot more secure in my decision on cord and foil thickness.

You are correct in assuming it is for an adult driving from the wire...but I will have a bit more righting moment as my planned beam was originally 8'-0" (2.439m) but now considering the loss of righting moment due to the curved foils, I am considering bumping it out to 8'-6" (2.59m).

My only "off the water" upper limitation as to width is legal trailer width, which is 8'-6" (2.59m) in my area.

This is not a svelte F14. There is a lot of volume in the hulls. Although not really designed as a two man boat, my intent was to be able to accommodate a passenger on occasion.

Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #241523
12/16/11 07:27 PM
12/16/11 07:27 PM

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Be careful not to make it too wide. Overly stable boats are boring when there is no wind you don't want to wait until 15 knots before you get on trapeze

Re: Formula 14 development [Re: ] #241531
12/16/11 11:09 PM
12/16/11 11:09 PM
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Good point Scarecrow....definitely something to keep in mind.

Re: Formula 14 development [Re: Berny] #241822
12/23/11 03:12 PM
12/23/11 03:12 PM
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
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Jumped my curved dagger board discussion over to the Home Boat Building section of the forum in an effort to scare up some good brainstorming of ideas...

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