| Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: drew584]
#243796 02/10/12 08:05 AM 02/10/12 08:05 AM |
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 602 Wilmington,NC Dlennard
addict
|
addict
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602 Wilmington,NC | I heard the foils on the f20c in the gt300 last year where a hindrance and that the boat seemed slow because of the curved foils.
this makes me wonder if the curved foils have a specific range where they work and other wind ranges where they do not. The only reason there were slow is because we broke both foils and the boat took on water. I was pretty mad at Nacra after finding out the boards we had were some of the first ones that I think had problems. Our team spent a lot of money and time off work to do the race and Nacra let us down. | | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: NacramanUK]
#243798 02/10/12 08:47 AM 02/10/12 08:47 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe |
Then I (and we all) stand corrected on that point (asymmetrical foils).
Mind you, all the large ocean going (French) tri's use assymmetrical (curved) foils. Many like to point at those as proof of feasibility.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: Wouter]
#243799 02/10/12 08:51 AM 02/10/12 08:51 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310 South Carolina |
Then I (and we all) stand corrected on that point (asymmetrical foils).
Mind you, all the large ocean going (French) tri's use assymmetrical (curved) foils. Many like to point at those as proof of feasibility.
Wouter
They also have more hands on deck.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: Jake]
#243802 02/10/12 08:58 AM 02/10/12 08:58 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe |
and much less tack and gybes per hour !
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: Wouter]
#243803 02/10/12 09:00 AM 02/10/12 09:00 AM |
Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 98 NacramanUK
journeyman
|
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 98 |
Then I (and we all) stand corrected on that point (asymmetrical foils).
Mind you, all the large ocean going (French) tri's use assymmetrical (curved) foils. Many like to point at those as proof of feasibility.
Wouter
There is a 12ft wide 3 sail M20(has an F20 C carbon mast) in the UK that has just had a special set of asymmetrical curved boards built and fitted.....it will be interesting to see how it performs this coming season... Also I have just checked on the Nacra Sailing website and there is a trim sheet for the F20 C there that is available for download that describes the different positions to set the boards at depending on wind speed both upwind and downwind. Unfortunately it is took big a file, once converted to PDF, to attach to this thread. So please see Nacra F20 C trimsheet download | | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#243808 02/10/12 09:48 AM 02/10/12 09:48 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | What's it going to cost to replace a curved dagger, vs. a straight board? Sooner or later, you are going to break one.
And if you are doing a distance type race (like the one mentioned above), and break all the curved boards anyone has on the beach, can you, in pinch, substitute a straight board as a spare? Or will it not fit into both hull slots?
The reality is, we all have to pay for our addictions, the higher the price, the fewer can play. I realise this F17 is aimed at the Olympics, that's good, let them buy it, I can't afford a(nother) $20,000 toy.
If the rest of the classes are going the direction of curved boards,...well...what's that going to cost to replace when I break one? Or do they cost about the same as a straight board?
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: Timbo]
#243809 02/10/12 10:24 AM 02/10/12 10:24 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | What's it going to cost to replace a curved dagger, vs. a straight board? Sooner or later, you are going to break one.
And if you are doing a distance type race (like the one mentioned above), and break all the curved boards anyone has on the beach, can you, in pinch, substitute a straight board as a spare? Or will it not fit into both hull slots?
The reality is, we all have to pay for our addictions, the higher the price, the fewer can play. I realise this F17 is aimed at the Olympics, that's good, let them buy it, I can't afford a(nother) $20,000 toy.
If the rest of the classes are going the direction of curved boards,...well...what's that going to cost to replace when I break one? Or do they cost about the same as a straight board?
Definitely not the same price between the two. Picture over $2k for a board...maybe more.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#243810 02/10/12 10:31 AM 02/10/12 10:31 AM |
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 932 Solomon's Island, MD samc99us
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932 Solomon's Island, MD | That has been discussed before. In comparison with very high end, all carbon, long straight boards as now being used in the F18 fleet, the curved boards aren't THAT much more, perhaps a few hundred per board. Price for long boards: http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/product_list.php?group=M%20FOILLong board=$1300/board, last F20c foil price I heard was ~$1800/board. Both prices are likely wrong and subject to change.
Last edited by samc99us; 02/10/12 10:32 AM.
Scorpion F18
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: mikekrantz]
#243817 02/10/12 10:52 AM 02/10/12 10:52 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | So basically 30% more expensive then long straight boards and above 1500 bucks a pop.
Go figure that I paid 400 bucks for a PAIR of Taipan 4.9 boards. Although with an aspect ratio of 2.5 these may not be called long and narrow.
What would Viper daggerboard cost, does anyone know ?
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#243822 02/10/12 11:35 AM 02/10/12 11:35 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525 | I predict a resurgence in the popularity of the H16!
Three fleets for different skill levels and plenty of beer.
Last edited by pgp; 02/10/12 11:36 AM.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: KMarshack]
#243825 02/10/12 11:46 AM 02/10/12 11:46 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | The RETAIL fro a Viper board is $783.01. The RETAIL for the new longer C2 board is $1,252.82. The price for the older C2 board (that some are using for the Viper) was about $950. As these get longer the price goes up fast. The price for a curved A Class board is about $950. I think I'll start leaving my boards in the box when I go out to practice! Nearly $2K per board for a single Curved board? Wow. I'm guessing the cost is that high due to the time required to build and a more difficult build process for a curved board? How do they even do it? Do they use molds or some other technique?
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#243828 02/10/12 12:00 PM 02/10/12 12:00 PM |
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 932 Solomon's Island, MD samc99us
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932 Solomon's Island, MD | Boards are made in a mold. Mold cost is easily $10k per half, probably more. As the boards get longer and/or curved, you need more materials to get the strength up. It also takes longer to build the board. I'd estimate $300 in materials and $900 in labor to build a curved F20c board. The rest of the money is covering R&D, mold cost, and warranty.
Scorpion F18
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: mikekrantz]
#243829 02/10/12 12:05 PM 02/10/12 12:05 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | The RETAIL fro a Viper board is $783.01. The RETAIL for the new longer C2 board is $1,252.82. The price for the older C2 board (that some are using for the Viper) was about $950. Today's price is $1,675 USD per board In either case. Good god. I paid about that for my first H16 Take care of them boards!!
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: pgp]
#243830 02/10/12 12:06 PM 02/10/12 12:06 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Three fleets for different skill levels and plenty of beer. You know... this is is just an asinine and ignorant statement. You demonstrate a fundamental lack of respect towards the sailors in other classes. Do you really think that the Hobie 16 sailors are less accomplished then the F18 sailors or F16 sailors. At the very least... I would take the seamanship skills of someone racing a Hobie 16 for 30 years over the seamanship of a new sailor with an F18! This attitude is not unique to you... If you don't respect your competitors... you don't need to show up and play. (gee... is turnout a problem in your part of the world???) So... whether it's a one design regatta where most of the sailors are the back of the fleet, a local handicap regatta with Hobie 16's to Nacra F20cs, or the Area US Sailing championship qualifiers.... when you don't respect ALL of the competitors in the game... there is not much reason to spend your time and money. Fact of life... good sailors are good sailors... they race in all different classes... disrespecting them ( Three fleets for different skill levels) diminishes the racing community.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#243831 02/10/12 12:14 PM 02/10/12 12:14 PM |
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine ThunderMuffin
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine | Three fleets for different skill levels and plenty of beer. You know... this is is just an asinine and ignorant statement. You demonstrate a fundamental lack of respect towards the sailors in other classes. Do you really think that the Hobie 16 sailors are less accomplished then the F18 sailors or F16 sailors. At the very least... I would take the seamanship skills of someone racing a Hobie 16 for 30 years over the seamanship of a new sailor with an F18! This attitude is not unique to you... If you don't respect your competitors... you don't need to show up and play. (gee... is turnout a problem in your part of the world???) So... whether it's a one design regatta where most of the sailors are the back of the fleet, a local handicap regatta with Hobie 16's to Nacra F20cs, or the Area US Sailing championship qualifiers.... when you don't respect ALL of the competitors in the game... there is not much reason to spend your time and money. Fact of life... good sailors are good sailors... they race in all different classes... disrespecting them ( Three fleets for different skill levels) diminishes the racing community. Easy there sparky, In Pete's defense, I think he was saying that the H16 has three different fleet "levels", such as gold silver bronze, A, B, C, etc... for differing skill levels amongst the overall fleet. I don't think he was saying that H16 sailors suck. I don't think anyone on this board would think that. | | | Re: New Nacra 17
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#243832 02/10/12 12:30 PM 02/10/12 12:30 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | Mark I agree with Tad I think you misread Pete's post too.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | |
|
0 registered members (),
474
guests, and 116
spiders. | Key: Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod | | Forums26 Topics22,405 Posts267,058 Members8,150 | Most Online2,167 Dec 19th, 2022 | | |