Last summer I bought my first 16 and learned how to sail the hard way. Me and my wife drove 4 hours to pick it up and got a lesson on the boat from the seller while we were there. The wind was light, 5-10 knots. So when we got home we went right out on our lake to try it (we were so excited!) However we failed to notice the wind was 50 km gusting to 70km. Thank goodness we had a third person on board to stay flat, even with the main sheeted right out. My wife was screaming to her sister (our third) "People can get killed like this!! Go back! Go back!!" She was wearing the harness but wouldn't go out on the wire far enough to help. Also the rudders weren't locking down properly so it was near impossible to tack. When we did get back, what did we do? We went out again, that's what we did. This time we took her brother as a third, who couldn't swim. Needless to say about 100 yards offshore he was yelling "GO BACK! GO BACK!!" Again the rudders prevented me from coming about, I kept stalling, so I chose to jibe. I have avoided jibing from that day on. We pitchpoled. We stuck the mast in the mud, since the lake was about 6-7 feet deep, and a boat came to our rescue and picked up the brother. They were a couple of hobie pros that showed us how to get it back up and take it back in. From that experience I learned that I wanted to have more control from the helm. Well, a year later I've learned alot about how to handle the boat, but to make for easier handling in strong winds which is the most fun, I've added a custom built trapseat. The clamps to the tramp rails and posts were made from steel, and the frame was bent from 1" conduit. The seat material is a mesh similar to what is used on lawn chairs (fiberglass weave, I think). The seats bolt on in about 5 minutes - the clamps stay on the tramp. The tramp needs to be tight to support the weight on the seats, or you hear an uneasy creaking sound as the rails rotate a bit. Thet seats don't have enough clearance to fly the hull more than a foot, but I'll correct that for next year. Next project will probably be a mast float, a single-righting apparatus, or maybe a bimini top.
Another pic - if anyone's interested I'll take more detailed pics of the seats and clamps. I planned to replace the steel clamps with polycarbonate ones, if I ever get around to designing the moulds.
here's a few thousand words for ya. i saw the sitnsail design - they look very nice, but i really wanted something to sit in rather than on. 900us=1300cdn and my boat cost me only 2700cdn. how do u expect me to save up for a F33? :P (maybe someday)
conduit trap seat btw the costs involved are: 6 - 10' lengths 1" diameter conduit (@ $5 each) $30 2 - fibreglass fabric mesh edges and pockets sewn $30 8 - clamps from 4' x 1 1/2" steel tubing, 2' x 4" steel tubing (hammered flatter), approx 10' x 1" wide x 1/8" strip metal about $15 bolts and nuts $8 about $85-90 and some mig welding and drilling
mounted seat - between the steel clamps and the rails/posts i wrapped straps of rubber to prevent chafing and cross-metal corrosion. i guess i should have put some tremclad on the clamps, but this was just a test project.
local upholstry shop - its the stuff used on outdoor furniture. they even stitched up the edges and sewed the sleeves for that price. u sound like u want to build one....
wow nice design, Ccan i do that with my h14? it will be nice to have when cruising on my lake. I am figuring all i would have to do is shorten the lengthes of the frame. And since i cant weld, is there any other way to do it?
If you cut out the metal with a hacksaw and have everything ready for the welding, I am sure you could get it welded at a garage or machine shop by a pro for peanuts, or a small amount of money.
The pipe takes only a few minutes for an electrician to bend as they have proper pipe benders that do a neat and sturdy bend in a few seconds. Just have it all measured out and ready and I'd say you'd have it done for free if you talk nicely... Maybe draw the outline on paper and print off the pics from the posts showing the design.
local upholstry shop - its the stuff used on outdoor furniture. they even stitched up the edges and sewed the sleeves for that price. u sound like u want to build one....
This it a great idea. I made some seats for my 16 a while back. They were uncomfortable to sit on and not that great to lean on. Never thought about something like this. Guess I have a winter project. (Pic of my old seats)
Wow what a great design and may be of great help for the current International Trapseat Class. From the pictures you supplied, what you have created does fit the description of what Trapseat is even though you should be careful in calling them Trapseats sense that name is used by the official class associate, etc. The current Trapseat design that has been produced for the Trapseat class cost us $1000 to $1200. You design may have reduced that cost significantly, that is if it is durable enough and can handle one or two people sitting in it or one person sitting in it while one trapeze off it. My question to you is are your trap seats strong enough to trapeze off of? I noticed the tube in one of your pictures is bent from the weight of you sitting in it, which would be a concern for me. The tube that is bent is the one that goes through the mesh seat on the bottom. I am assuming it would be just as easy to use a little thicker tubes or bigger diameter tubes to increase the strength. I am a little pickier with durability issue sense I am sailing with those with spinal cord injuries and one thing I do not want is a seat to fail. Would you please email me as I would like to talk with you more about your design, etc? My email is info@sail-s.com
Those cross bars bent when myself, my dog and my brother-in-law went out on the seat (140 + 70 + 220 = 430lbs). Not that it wouldn't have bent a little under less stress, but the play in the clamps (which are not tight-fitted but quite loose) and play in the clamp receivers where the conduit seats into is what allowed the crossbar to give a little. It is not going any further. The clamps would have to rotate significantly more and probably stresses applied at near 800 ftlbs to actually bend the conduit.
As for actually standing on the outer seat rail, we haven't done that. While I sit and captain from the rear of the seat (140lb), a friend has sat on the outer rail and holds the trap wire handle (200lb). To stand on it and really leverage your weight I would recommend a thicker diameter tubing or a shorter straight run.
However it's important to understand one thing - I don't use this for racing, the intention was to use for cruising only. The proper materials for water might be stainless steel or aluminum ( aluminum especially for weight - the steel clamps weigh about 5lb x8 =40lbs alone) if for salt water use (you could coat the steel in pvc like is done in dishwashers), and the materials cost x5 at least, so $1000us is not really unreasonable for a tried and true performance-oriented product. This design grew out of the desire to cruise with additional room and wanting a backrest on a 3-4 hour cruise, and 1000us for a lawn chair seemed a little extravagent.
Regardless of that little disclaimer, I'll put together a little more detail of the process involved in the design and manufacture, and show some suggested improvements. I would like this design to be in the public domain so that guys like me who like to build things might also share their ideas.
I once came accross the factory for Knoll Furniture while in South America, and they showed me plans of how they built a bent tube chair designed by Le Corbusier. The tube was stainless steel, and they inserted a solid piece of aluminum round bar (which was the size of the inside diameter of the tube) in the areas that were carrying the load and therefore most likely to bend. This could be done to reinforce the areas that are bending on your trapseat design without having to increase the diameter of the tube. You can also increase the wall thickness on the tube.
OK small correction - clamps weigh in at about 1lb each with the bolts, and the seats are no more than 6-7 lbs each, so total added weight would be 15lbs. Weight not an issue here. I'm working on a smal tutorial with pics and will post when its done.
