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Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: Sailinghoutx] #253471
10/14/12 01:42 PM
10/14/12 01:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2
Idaho
N5hgt Offline
stranger
N5hgt  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2
Idaho
#1 I would look at why there would be metal fatigue? If the bridle is pulling at some new angle other than what it was designed for, then that would have to be addressed. If you want to fix this right you will have to cut some holes in the hull. I like to use a rotary grinder/sander with a 6" wheel you put 36 grit paper on it and grind a hole under and around the broken tang for about 4 to 6 inches below it. That gives you enough room to work and maybe get the broken off tang out of the hull. It also gives you a feathered edge from which to re build the hull. If you can find a fiber optic device and fish that into the hull under the tang, that might help to diagnose the fix too, and see what the best plan would be where to go in, etc.

If you haven't done much fiberglass work yourself you might want to get a book on the subject from the library. One good one is "The Gougeon Brothers on boat construction" or "Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenence" also from Gougeon brothers /West System epoxy.

It's no fun, but it's possible.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: TurboCat] #253475
10/14/12 04:01 PM
10/14/12 04:01 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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Kingston SE South Australia
I don't know anything about the Prindle but the angle of the existing bow tang should give you an idea of how it will be mounted. If its flat verticle it may be as simple as bolted to a bulkhead and that would be a relatively easy fix once in the hull. When cutting into the hull make sure you don't make a cut on top of a bulkhead as you wont be able to get your arm in the hole


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: TurboCat] #253476
10/14/12 06:55 PM
10/14/12 06:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
My wag is remove the deck say 3" or less one or both sides of tang/bulkhead.
As the replacement/new deck may be easier area to build back vs trying to rebuild the hull.
Corrosion? Look for hairline cracks on ss in the other one.

Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: TurboCat] #253482
10/15/12 07:23 AM
10/15/12 07:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
H
Hullflyer1 Offline
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Hullflyer1  Offline
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H

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Posts: 304
I have replaced a few, they are shaped like a cross with the horizonal piece shaped the same as where the hull and deck meet. The fitting is glassed in position. I used a 6 inch hole saw (in reverse) on the opposite hull side to gain access. Save the cutout, Ground away the glass removed, installed the new part, held it in place using vise grips on the outside of the hull, glassed in. Repaired the hole using the cutout and a backing.

Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: Hullflyer1] #253483
10/15/12 07:33 AM
10/15/12 07:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
for backing to reinstall the hole, cut short popsicle sticks and glue them to the inside of the hull to make a "shelf" for the cutout to sit against. Use cloths pins clips to hold the sticks to the hull while the glue dries (epoxy or polyester resin) and be careful not to get any resin on the sides of the opening so your cut-out will fit back in without issue. Then mix up some more thickened resin and put it to the sticks and the edges of the opening (lightly). fit the cut-out back into the hull and rotate it back and forth to squeeze out the resin and get it at the same level as the outer surface of the hull. Tape it into position and let it firm up. With a small ziplock bag, fill it again with more thickened resin and just nip off a corner of the bag with scissors or a razor blade. Use this to squeeze in some more thickened resin around the perimeter of the repair filling the gap between the hull and the plate like icing a cake. This resin should be the thickest of them all - nearly like peanut butter in consistency. Scrape away any excess and let this cure. Then, with a side-angle grinder and a flapper sanding disk, I would sand around the perimeter of the repair you just made and dig into the fresh resin creating a little dished out area to lay in some new fiberglass to join the outer skin back together. Cut a bunch of fiberglass pieces and start to build the shallow U-notch you made back out slightly beyond the outer surface of the hull. Let it cure, sand with palm sander, skim coat with some premium bondo, sand, fill pin holes, gelcoat.


Jake Kohl
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: TurboCat] #253486
10/15/12 09:13 AM
10/15/12 09:13 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8
Seabrook, TX
Sailinghoutx Offline
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Sailinghoutx  Offline
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8
Seabrook, TX
Thanks for the replies guys, I wasn't sure if my question would be seen as this thread was from back in 2009. I posted up again as a new posting, hope this is not a problem. This seems like it is going to be a BIG undertaking and I have no glass experience. I read and reviewed the photos Turbocat posted, it just looks like removing the top deck will give the easiest access but I don't even know if I can still find new top decks. Plus, not even sure how to get the top decks off.

Thanks for the help.


Morris Covin

Prindle 16 sail #5229
Prindle 16 sail #8647
Current ride; Prindle 19 sail #309
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: Sailinghoutx] #253493
10/15/12 11:22 AM
10/15/12 11:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Sailinghoutx
Thanks for the replies guys, I wasn't sure if my question would be seen as this thread was from back in 2009. I posted up again as a new posting, hope this is not a problem. This seems like it is going to be a BIG undertaking and I have no glass experience. I read and reviewed the photos Turbocat posted, it just looks like removing the top deck will give the easiest access but I don't even know if I can still find new top decks. Plus, not even sure how to get the top decks off.

Thanks for the help.


I think going in through the side is a better option. A hole-saw may not provide a large enough hole, you may be better off to use a jig saw and cut the access through the side of the hull, then reinstall the panel you cut out. Removing the decks is really hit or miss...you may break the deck and I really doubt you'll be able to find a replacement....then again, maybe fixing the deck would be easier than the hole option?


Jake Kohl
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: TurboCat] #253505
10/15/12 12:55 PM
10/15/12 12:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
If you do use a jigsaw ,set the blade at 45 degrees so you cut the hole like the top of a Jack o' Lantern( \_/ ), then you have a larger stable gluing surface to re-mount the patch back on to. Makes fairing and finishing much easier, as well as a much sturdier repair.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: TurboCat] #253513
10/15/12 04:19 PM
10/15/12 04:19 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
I've removed a top deck before on another boat and it turned into a big job to get it tidy again. I would encourage you to do it through the side as the above posts by experienced people recommend. The more worried about your fibreglass skills the more you should go through the inside of the hull, even if you don't do a very good paint job on your repair nobody will notice it but your decks everyone will see. If you do manage to buy a new deck you need to trust your resin skills to glue it down with absolutely no gaps anywhere or it will suck water and it is very difficult to stop these leaks afterwards


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: JeffS] #253514
10/15/12 07:36 PM
10/15/12 07:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by JeffS
I've removed a top deck before on another boat and it turned into a big job to get it tidy again. I would encourage you to do it through the side as the above posts by experienced people recommend. The more worried about your fibreglass skills the more you should go through the inside of the hull, even if you don't do a very good paint job on your repair nobody will notice it but your decks everyone will see. If you do manage to buy a new deck you need to trust your resin skills to glue it down with absolutely no gaps anywhere or it will suck water and it is very difficult to stop these leaks afterwards


I've done both and getting the deck off without tearing or breaking it is very hard (Apparently too hard for me) if you are going to try and get the deck off you need to use a heat gun and a putty knife ,but not get the glass too hot. The side is easier, will finish better (especially if you do the pumpkin cut) and is less apt to be under as high stress loads as the deck will be. Just make sure you have open access before you cut i.e. not cutting into a bulkhead.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #253526
10/16/12 06:58 AM
10/16/12 06:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by JeffS
I've removed a top deck before on another boat and it turned into a big job to get it tidy again. I would encourage you to do it through the side as the above posts by experienced people recommend. The more worried about your fibreglass skills the more you should go through the inside of the hull, even if you don't do a very good paint job on your repair nobody will notice it but your decks everyone will see. If you do manage to buy a new deck you need to trust your resin skills to glue it down with absolutely no gaps anywhere or it will suck water and it is very difficult to stop these leaks afterwards


I've done both and getting the deck off without tearing or breaking it is very hard (Apparently too hard for me) if you are going to try and get the deck off you need to use a heat gun and a putty knife ,but not get the glass too hot. The side is easier, will finish better (especially if you do the pumpkin cut) and is less apt to be under as high stress loads as the deck will be. Just make sure you have open access before you cut i.e. not cutting into a bulkhead.


Aaaa! good point...avoid bulkheads. Cutting into one of those for your access hole has a suck factor of "12".


Jake Kohl
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: Jake] #253538
10/16/12 10:23 AM
10/16/12 10:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
I agree with cutting into the sides vs. removing a deck. I need to cut into the sied of my N20 this winter and have been studying Jakes repair photos for ideas. Not to hi jack but has anyone ever noticed a thin, soft line in the side just below the no-skid where your heel rides when trapping out?


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: TeamChums] #253547
10/16/12 12:58 PM
10/16/12 12:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by TeamChums
I agree with cutting into the sides vs. removing a deck. I need to cut into the sied of my N20 this winter and have been studying Jakes repair photos for ideas. Not to hi jack but has anyone ever noticed a thin, soft line in the side just below the no-skid where your heel rides when trapping out?


I've never noticed that on any of the 20's I've owned/worked on. Is it horizontal? There shouldn't be any structural feature to cause that (unless you have a Hobie Tiger-like sub deck for some reason).


Jake Kohl
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: Jake] #253599
10/17/12 11:23 AM
10/17/12 11:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
veteran
TeamChums  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
It is horizontal and about 16" long. I'm thinking there may be a seam in the foam core here. I'll be cutting in a hole on the inside and likely laying up some carbon in there.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Bridle wire tang broke off at hull [Re: TeamChums] #253615
10/17/12 08:45 PM
10/17/12 08:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
AzCat Offline
enthusiast
AzCat  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
Mine had a 6" fracture when I bought it,. I chased it , glassed it and gelcoated it, seems to be solid so far. It was right behind the rear beam, 6" down.. It was easy to sand and add a layer of glass on the inside through the access port. I got lucky. There was no structural member there.

My 5.0 had a 6" fracture in front of the main beam. right at the top of the long. struct member. same fix. single layer glass hulls so I just fixed from the outside.


Auscat MKV 444 A class
NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA
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