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Spinnaker pole pulling out #258407
03/18/13 01:04 PM
03/18/13 01:04 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 108
Coral Gables, Fl
ferminj Offline OP
member
ferminj  Offline OP
member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 108
Coral Gables, Fl
My spinnaker pole (end hoop) is attached to the crossbeam of my P19 using a standard nacra pin and a pole plug with a hole that fits in the pin. The pole has in a number of ocassions fallen off the pin (before the chute is flown)and tips forward dipping the hoop in the water filling the snuffer with water followed by screams etc.
The pin does have a little hole where I am guessing a retaining clip could be attached, but this is not found in the pole plug. Am I doing something wrong?. The front pole stays are tight (spectra). Should there be an additional way to secure the pole to crossbeam ie a short line from the pole to the dolphing striker?. What can cause this condition?? Baffled in Miami

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258408
03/18/13 01:32 PM
03/18/13 01:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
is there any pre-bend in the pole? This usually keeps it on the crossbeam pin.

Perhaps the bridle wires aren't angled enough to put aft pressure on the pole?


Jay

Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258409
03/18/13 01:43 PM
03/18/13 01:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
These are normally kept in place with pressure from the rigging and don't require a keeper of any kind - basically the angle of the end-pole bridles should keep plenty of pressure on the pole base / pin to keep it engaged. Can you show a picture of your setup?


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258415
03/18/13 03:21 PM
03/18/13 03:21 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 108
Coral Gables, Fl
ferminj Offline OP
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ferminj  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 108
Coral Gables, Fl
Thanks for the advice, no pixs until I set the system up next weekend. I have prebend in the pole basically controlled by the two forward pole stays (attached to the hull tips) and a line controlling the distance below the furler at the bridle. I am thinking that maybe my sidestays were loose (did not tension them last time) and this allows the mast to move forward and thus loosening the bridle to pole connection. Next time I was going to rake the mast a tad back and fully tension the sidestays.

Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258416
03/18/13 04:27 PM
03/18/13 04:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
That still doesn't completely explain it. If you have any tension on your end-pole bridles, the last direction it should move is away from the front beam.


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258419
03/18/13 08:52 PM
03/18/13 08:52 PM

S
Scarecrow
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Scarecrow
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S



Do you have the bow stays going to the forward end of the pole? If they are and there is any tension at all the pole won't be able to move forward.

Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ] #258428
03/19/13 10:55 AM
03/19/13 10:55 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 108
Coral Gables, Fl
ferminj Offline OP
member
ferminj  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 108
Coral Gables, Fl
Well they are going to the 3 and 9 oclock position in the hoop, its an old f18 (i think) end snuffer pole

Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258429
03/19/13 11:04 AM
03/19/13 11:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
mmmmm...yeah...need pictures. We should be able to suggest an improvement if we can see it.


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258436
03/20/13 12:42 PM
03/20/13 12:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
AzCat Offline
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AzCat  Offline
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Posts: 337
Arizona
If you have the standard end pole hoop that most run, then you should be running the spin pole bridle to the tip of the hoop.There should be a stainless steel double eye bolt at the tip of the hoop. The top eye is for the tack of the spin to attach to. The bottom eye is for the bridle. During setup,if you attach one of the bridles to this eye, the pole should already be under compression. You should have to push the hoop down and away from the first attached bridle to attach the second bridle line. Once both bridles are attached, you should be able to pick up the whole front of the boat by pushing up on the tip of the hoop. Your pole should have an arch of about 3 inches minimum. Your attachment at the forestays should not be providing upward pressure to induce bend in the pole, but should instead be holding the pole in place(column). The bend in the pole should be induced by the foreword pole bridle inducing compresson. The tip of your pole should be about 3' in front of your bows. +_. If properly set up, you could hang your boat in a tree by the tip of the pole to dry out after a day of sailing without it coming off that pin. Your mast rake will have no effect. Rig tension will have little effect.(only in that it will help hold the center of the spin pole in column).


Auscat MKV 444 A class
NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: AzCat] #258437
03/20/13 01:04 PM
03/20/13 01:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by azcat
If you have the standard end pole hoop that most run, then you should be running the spin pole bridle to the tip of the hoop.There should be a stainless steel double eye bolt at the tip of the hoop. The top eye is for the tack of the spin to attach to. The bottom eye is for the bridle. During setup,if you attach one of the bridles to this eye, the pole should already be under compression. You should have to push the hoop down and away from the first attached bridle to attach the second bridle line. Once both bridles are attached, you should be able to pick up the whole front of the boat by pushing up on the tip of the hoop. Your pole should have an arch of about 3 inches minimum. Your attachment at the forestays should not be providing upward pressure to induce bend in the pole, but should instead be holding the pole in place(column). The bend in the pole should be induced by the foreword pole bridle inducing compresson. The tip of your pole should be about 3' in front of your bows. +_. If properly set up, you could hang your boat in a tree by the tip of the pole to dry out after a day of sailing without it coming off that pin. Your mast rake will have no effect. Rig tension will have little effect.(only in that it will help hold the center of the spin pole in column).


3" of prebend is more than I remember with the older carbon end-pole hoop system...are you sure that's correct?


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: Jake] #258438
03/20/13 01:23 PM
03/20/13 01:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
veteran
TeamChums  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
I had a little too much tension on my end pole and the end split where the hoop slides in.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258440
03/20/13 01:40 PM
03/20/13 01:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
AzCat Offline
enthusiast
AzCat  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
I always had about 3"maybe a little less. Never had a problem. But that dosnt mean I wouldn't eventually have had a problem.
Ferminj, I would go with whatever these guys have in mind, they are much more knowlagable than me.
As for the rest, you get the idea I hope. Pics would help.


Auscat MKV 444 A class
NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258441
03/20/13 02:12 PM
03/20/13 02:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Has anyone mentioned the benefits of...

Duct Tape?

It's not just for sails and hulls anymore!


Blade F16
#777
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258442
03/20/13 03:22 PM
03/20/13 03:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
You should send a few rolls over to Airbus, might improve things drastically


I'm boatless.
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258444
03/20/13 04:06 PM
03/20/13 04:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
On my boat, the pole could pull out if the rig tension was "really" loose. He said it was loose in the original post, so just how loose is it?

Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: bacho] #258445
03/20/13 04:42 PM
03/20/13 04:42 PM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
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what happens if you demast?
Originally Posted by bacho
On my boat, the pole could pull out if the rig tension was "really" loose. He said it was loose in the original post, so just how loose is it?

Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: ferminj] #258455
03/21/13 05:57 AM
03/21/13 05:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 139
Hernando, Florida
M
Mlcreek Offline
member
Mlcreek  Offline
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M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 139
Hernando, Florida
Wow, 3" that costs me a repair job on the connection between tubes. I only slightly load it. No more than an inch.


Forrest
I-20
USA 645

" There ain't enough rum in the drum!"
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: Mlcreek] #258458
03/21/13 07:16 AM
03/21/13 07:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
There may have been a prior issue with that pole, causing the crack. But maybe the 3" prebend is a bit heavy.

I recall the aluminum spin poles bent like the golden arches..


Jay

Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: waterbug_wpb] #258460
03/21/13 08:17 AM
03/21/13 08:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
veteran
TeamChums  Offline
veteran

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
I must admit that mine did have a bit of UV damage ALOT of abuse. Over 400 lbs crew weight, double trap spinn reaching on many occasions...something's gonna give. A stainless hose clamp saved the day.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Spinnaker pole pulling out [Re: waterbug_wpb] #258461
03/21/13 08:44 AM
03/21/13 08:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
There may have been a prior issue with that pole, causing the crack. But maybe the 3" prebend is a bit heavy.

I recall the aluminum spin poles bent like the golden arches..


True - the aluminum pole prebend is a totally different matter and it got to be more and more over time as the spinnaker luffs got longer.


Jake Kohl
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