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Blade traveller track #260539
06/20/13 02:54 PM
06/20/13 02:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 264
Long Island, NY
gregP19 Offline OP
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gregP19  Offline OP
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Long Island, NY
I'm starting to have the same problems with some of the pop rivets on my traveller track that other Blade owners have had. I read earlier about some of you taping a wrench to a batten and extending it inside of the beam to hold the nut in place while you tighten the flathead machine screw from above. It looks like I only need to replace the 2 rivets in the middle of the track. Would it be foolish from a structural standpoint if I drilled clear thru the bottom of the beam and attached the nut to the outside? It would certainly be easier.


G Gove Blade #728 Long Island, New Yawk
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Re: Blade traveller track [Re: gregP19] #260540
06/20/13 03:44 PM
06/20/13 03:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
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Northfield Mn
I wouldn't. Just because its more places for lines to get snagged, and your introducing more areas for corrosion to take hold.

Not having done it, I'm sure the wrench on a stick sucks butt, but its not like you're going to be doing it every single day, and realistically you'll probably just end up doing the same amount work in the end as drilling all the way through.


I'm boatless.
Re: Blade traveller track [Re: gregP19] #260542
06/20/13 04:37 PM
06/20/13 04:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
Aido Offline
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Aido  Offline
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Brisveagas
The spanner on a stick works, just, and it really does suck.

Never tried this but my mate who has a sheet metal business has this thing he calls a "nutsert gun" that puts nuts into a hole in just about anything like a rivet gun. I reckon that would definitely be the easy way. Some one else might know more about it.


Aido
Viper 288
Re: Blade traveller track [Re: gregP19] #260543
06/20/13 04:41 PM
06/20/13 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
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I used a deep socket, the type that has a "seat" inside that holds the nut near the opening. Still a pita. If you had two people it would be much, much easier. Once you have your wrench, drop an ice pick inside the hole to help locate the wrench. Once it is near the opening you can then use the ice pick to center the nut so that the screw drops in more easily.

I thought about rivnuts but was not convinced of their holding power.

Last edited by pgp; 06/20/13 04:44 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Blade traveller track [Re: gregP19] #260544
06/20/13 05:50 PM
06/20/13 05:50 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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Kingston SE South Australia
Don't drill right through and bolt to the other side of the beam as it will compress and may eventually crack at the bolt holes unless you put a spacer inside the beam for every bolt. I've replaced all the rivets on a few boats now. I used 12 mm ali tube as it is more stable than a batten, then attached some flat to the end that can be bent, to this I taped my spanner. I used a light dust of spray on adhesive on the locking nuts to stick the washers on enough to get them on the bolt. To hold the nut in the spanner I used some tape stuck to the spanner with the sticky side up so that it lightly grips the nut. Start from the middle and work your way out so you can see what your doing. Once you've done the first couple it gets very easy so you may as well do them all while your there. The nut's lock in because of the shape of the beam so it's easy to retighten if needed at a later date but I've never had to.

I give everything a smear of duralac as I put it together so that it doesn't start corroding straight away. When you take the traveller track off, the holes will have pulled up I don't tap them down, the bolts pull everything flush as long as I use the exact screwdriver for the head

Last edited by JeffS; 06/21/13 01:24 AM.

Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Blade traveller track [Re: gregP19] #260545
06/20/13 05:56 PM
06/20/13 05:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
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+1 "...start from the middle"


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Blade traveller track [Re: Aido] #260593
06/23/13 07:53 AM
06/23/13 07:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
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Greenville SC
Originally Posted by Aido


Never tried this but my mate who has a sheet metal business has this thing he calls a "nutsert gun" that puts nuts into a hole in just about anything like a rivet gun. I reckon that would definitely be the easy way. Some one else might know more about it.



I've used them before, I wouldn't do it unless its a last resort. You end up drilling a big hole, sometimes they go in well, often they don't.

The aviation industry has all kinds of cool rivets that are far stronger than the SS pop rivets we use. Other than availability and price, I am not sure why we don't see them more often.

Re: Blade traveller track [Re: bacho] #260600
06/23/13 12:33 PM
06/23/13 12:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by bacho
I've used them before, I wouldn't do it unless its a last resort. You end up drilling a big hole, sometimes they go in well, often they don't.


This.

I use them for the job traveler track on the Viper so I can take it off for singlehanding easily. Sometimes they set real nicely, sometimes they don't. I really don't think they would hold up to a main either, at least not the size that I use. I'm not a fan of rivnuts they have their uses, but they can be a massive pain to use.

Plus, you'd still be looking at more work than just dealing with the wrench on the stick method.


I'm boatless.
Re: Blade traveller track [Re: gregP19] #260604
06/23/13 07:30 PM
06/23/13 07:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
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Dazz  Offline
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Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
plan C:

in 2002 I had to re beam a nacra 5.8 front and rear due to a dolphin striker failure (actually it was the designers failure but that's another story) the track was bolted all the way across the beam. what we did was drill 5mm holes for the bolts on one side of the beam to attach the track and 12mm holes on the other side to allow the use of a tube spanner. the whole thing comes apart and goes back together very quickly and it has stood the test of time. 11 years later:


Attached Files
IMG_0438.JPG (163 downloads)
nacra 5.8 rear beam

C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Blade traveller track [Re: Dazz] #260613
06/24/13 03:59 AM
06/24/13 03:59 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway

I did the spanner on a rod job on a 3 meter wide Tornado rearbeam some years ago. I used double sided tape inside the spanner to secure the nut. It was an OK job with regards to effort, time and results. Doing 12mm holes on the bottom side sounds far better and should be structurally OK. Neat idea! I'll probably do this instead next time.

Re: Blade traveller track [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #260622
06/24/13 09:49 AM
06/24/13 09:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
since we're tossing ideas about... Aside from the installation hassle of the middle points, could you pop-rivet a washer (or more likely a disc with a properly sized hole in it) as a back-stop instead of just riveting to the beam itself?

From my experience, it wasn't the rivet that fails, but rather the mounting, requiring a slightly larger rivet to replace the failed one...?

How much weight did those spanners add to the beam?


Jay

Re: Blade traveller track [Re: gregP19] #260628
06/24/13 11:42 AM
06/24/13 11:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
I replaced my entire traveler track a couple years ago after one end snapped of while broad reaching in from the race course at Tradewinds.

First I had to drill out the remaining pop rivets, then I used the 10mm (?) box end wrench taped to the fat end of a long, stiff batten, and had my daughter hold it in place while I lined it up from above. We measured the placement of the nut by lying the batten on top of the beam first, to mark the batten with a sharpie, when the nut was approximately at the hole, make a sharpie line at the point where the end of the beam is against the batten, so then when you slide the batten inside the beam, you'll have a pretty close estimate of where the nut/hole should be, when the batten is inserted to the sharpie mark.

It took the two of us about 3 hours to do the entire track, about 12 (?) screws I think. And as mentioned above, start in the middle and work your way out to each end! Otherwise the new screws/nuts will be in your way.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Blade traveller track [Re: Timbo] #260634
06/24/13 01:09 PM
06/24/13 01:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 264
Long Island, NY
gregP19 Offline OP
enthusiast
gregP19  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 264
Long Island, NY
I did it exactly the way you just described. I only replaced the 2 pop rivets in the track center with flathead machine screws with washers and nylock nuts. It only took 15 minutes with help from a friend. I guess dreading it really is worse than doing it!


G Gove Blade #728 Long Island, New Yawk
Re: Blade traveller track [Re: gregP19] #260637
06/24/13 03:38 PM
06/24/13 03:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Although I do like that spanner photo... Those "speed holes" could be used to hold a nut to the inside of the beam with a long socket driver (like a screwdriver). Make the beam lighter, too?


Jay

Re: Blade traveller track [Re: gregP19] #260676
06/25/13 09:26 PM
06/25/13 09:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
addict
sail7seas  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
Drill and tap a 1/2" x .125 (or .188 better) a continuous flat bar inside of the beam. Re-tighten when bar bends to curve of beam, or narrower bar.
Hold/brace the bar in place for the center hole, then drill and tap your way out to the ends.

Re: Blade traveller track [Re: gregP19] #260684
06/26/13 07:39 AM
06/26/13 07:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
O
orphan Offline
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orphan  Offline
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O

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
If you had a long enough batten/support for the nut you could have a person at each end of the rear beam aligning the nut under the hole. It would make centering and holding the nut in place that much easier.


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