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Hull Cradles #262987
08/29/13 07:06 AM
08/29/13 07:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 22
RParentsail Offline OP
stranger
RParentsail  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 22
Does anyone know where I could find some metal hull cradles? Preferably ones that aren't carpeted or padded yet. The fiberglass ones seem to break often with a little abuse and I would like to put something other than carpet on them to try something new.


"Nothing that is worth knowing can be taught." ~Oscar Wilde
RPSailing.blogspot.com
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Re: Hull Cradles [Re: RParentsail] #262992
08/29/13 08:12 AM
08/29/13 08:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
I have a set of fiberglass ones never used (still in box - with carpet) for an N20 or other symmetrical hull.. Can't remember if they've got the pivot bracket or not on them already...


Jay

Re: Hull Cradles [Re: RParentsail] #262999
08/29/13 09:30 AM
08/29/13 09:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
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samc99us  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
On my last trailer the cradles had foam under the carpets. This is what I should do with my current cradles, but it's a pain removing the carpet. Others have been trailering with throwable life jackets between the boat and the rollers. What is the consensus on reducing shock load's on the boat with the use of foam?

What are you going to padd/carpet the metal hull cradles with? I don't think they exist. We might could fabricate some but big might, they are a tricky part and lend themselves more nicely to fiberglass. I haven't had any issues with the fiberglass cradles if you don't over-tighten the bolts.


Scorpion F18
Re: Hull Cradles [Re: RParentsail] #263010
08/29/13 11:08 AM
08/29/13 11:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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bacho  Offline
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Greenville SC
Jill sells stamped aluminum cradles, they are pretty sweet.

Re: Hull Cradles [Re: RParentsail] #263033
08/29/13 10:06 PM
08/29/13 10:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Bingo bacho


I'm boatless.
Re: Hull Cradles [Re: bacho] #263035
08/30/13 07:13 AM
08/30/13 07:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
does anyone have pictures of those stamped cradles?


Jake Kohl
Hull Cradles, make them yourself cheap and easy [Re: Jake] #263230
09/05/13 11:51 AM
09/05/13 11:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 144
Near SLC, Utah
tomthouse Offline
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tomthouse  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 144
Near SLC, Utah
I had an awful time finding hull cradles that were cheap, tough and readily available.

I finally found a broken section of thick gauge and large diameter PVC pipe at a constructions site, in their dump pile.

It was given to me after a short conversation with the site foreman.

I took the broken piece home.

From this discarded PVC remnant, I cut four pieces to the shape I wanted.

After marking where I wanted the new cradles to support the cat on the trailer, I slid the cat off the trailer and capsized it on my lawn.

I then placed towels on the keel, at these marked location and used my wifes kitchen oven to heat the four pieces that I cut from the salvaged PVC remnant.

You have to watch the heat carefully, but the PVC will quickly become very pliable and rubber-like.

Using oven mitts I gingerly removed these pieces from the oven and placed them on something to carry them outside and to my overturned cat.

I then placed the heated PVC shapes on the boat's keel at the right locations and let them cool.

When cooled, they returned to being as rigid and tough as before the PVC material was heated and shaped exactly to the shape of my hull, in the desired locations.

I then cut two slots in each of the new cradles, where I used large hose clamps from Home Depot's plumbing Department to affix them to each end of my trailer's bow and stern cross member supports.

After gluing and cutting a bit of new carpet remnants obtained for free from a carpet shop, to pad the inside of these new cradles, I was ready to flip the boat right side up and put it back on my trailer.

These are absolutely the best cradles I've ever used and they are tough, resilient and sitting in the hot summer sun hasn't caused any deterioration that I can see.

I still have enough left over PVC material for a few more cradles, when I want to replace those on my other beach cat trailers.

Try it, you may find that you like them as much as I do. These are cheap, easy, tough and made from readily available materials if you just keep your eyes open and ask a construction site foreman.

A cold soda in hand, may help a bit with the transaction.

Last edited by tomthouse; 09/05/13 11:54 AM.
Re: Hull Cradles, make them yourself cheap and easy [Re: RParentsail] #263233
09/05/13 01:12 PM
09/05/13 01:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
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samc99us  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
I'd love to see a photo of Jill's stamped aluminum cradles.

Tom,

Can you post photos? I am curious what beach cat you have-this sounds like a reasonable solution for a Hobie 16 and maybe even a Hobie 18. A modern F16 and F18 have wide hulls; wide enough I'm not sure PVC is available in near the desired width

You most also excuse the below tirade. I like the creative use of someone elses trash to save $200+ on hull cradle. But I also don't like killing people.

From this website, http://completewastemgmt.com/education/backyard-burning/: "it only takes 5 ounces of burning PVC to give off enough hydrogen chloride gas to kill the occupants in an average size bedroom in ten minutes."

Using a kitchen oven to melt PVC is pretty risky business. Not something I could endorse to others. Would I do it myself? Perhaps, but I have a hot box with digital thermostat for this kind of situation. If you accidentally melt PVC in your oven that oven very well could be toast; cleaning it up would be a total mess and the toxins left behind are pretty nasty. New ovens are $$$.

You can replace the carpet with plastic on the hulls and layup some fiberglass cradles in a similar time frame. Materials costs is about $50.


Scorpion F18
Re: Hull Cradles, make them yourself cheap and easy [Re: RParentsail] #263249
09/05/13 07:27 PM
09/05/13 07:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 144
Near SLC, Utah
tomthouse Offline
member
tomthouse  Offline
member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 144
Near SLC, Utah
Samc99us:

All good points.

I'll have to shoot some photos next time I'm at the lake house where my boats are stored and sailed.

Last time I checked, most anything that is in your car, garage or home, etc., when it burns, it all can kill you and others with the smoke and toxins.

Even your beach cat would probably kill you if you inhaled the toxins when burned...but your points are well taken.

The PVC isn't being melted, it is being softened.

One might be able to do that simply by placing the material into boiling water or subjecting it to hot air.

The PVC pipe I used was from a large diameter pipe, used in commercial construction and was about 12 inches in diameter.

When cut and flattened in the heat of the oven or what ever, gives you a piece that is nearly 18 inches wide by what ever length one chooses.

I don't recall cradles that are that big, so the final product is smaller than that for most beachcats and boats that I've seen.

That would be large enough for cradles on my Stiletto 27 if I weren't using rollers.

Cheeers

Re: Hull Cradles, make them yourself cheap and easy [Re: tomthouse] #263253
09/05/13 09:21 PM
09/05/13 09:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
Dlennard Offline
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Dlennard  Offline
addict

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
I also made some pvc cradles out of some left over 12" pipe several years ago and they worked great. I heated mine up on the gas grill on foil. They where for a I20 and were plenty wide. I have also made some fiberglass ones which took a lot more time and cost.

How to soften PVC to reform or shape it. [Re: Dlennard] #263261
09/06/13 08:06 AM
09/06/13 08:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 144
Near SLC, Utah
tomthouse Offline
member
tomthouse  Offline
member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 144
Near SLC, Utah
SUBJECT: How to soften PVC to reform or shape it.

This discussion got me curious, so I did a bit of internet research and found the following info:

When they extrude PVC, the melting temperature is about 330 +/-20 F. depending on application.

However, PVC softens at relatively low temperatures. This softening occurs at about 104 degrees Celsius, or 219.2 degrees Fahrenheit.

Since water boils at 100 degrees Celsius, 212 degrees Fahrenheit under standard conditions at sea level, using boiling water (or steam) is an answer to how to heat the stuff to make it pliable enough to reshape it from a section of discarded construction site material into the shap of a cradle.

This may also lessen the likelihood of accidentally burining the material and creating bad gases and toxin release.

For your "Gee Whiz" file of perhpas useless but interesting information, you may wish to note the following:

GASES

When you burn PVC pipes, you produce dioxins and hydrogen chloride. In addition, heated PVC can give off these dangerous gases without actually being incinerated.

CONSEQUENCES

Exposure to dioxins can lead to cancer and damage your immune system and reproductive system. Hydrogen chloride gas is a corrosive gas that can damage your respiratory system and cause skin burns.


Read more: http://www.ehow.com/facts_7687006_there-gases-heating-pvc-pipes.html#ixzz2e7FJAsYY

One should easily realize that all things can be dangerous, one way or the other.

For example we know that we shouldn't breath smoke or noxious fumes from gasoline, smoke, cleaning solutions or other chemical. However, many of those same folks find it acceptible to smoke tobacco, work with and sand fiberglass, and get drunk on the weekends and think it is not only acceptable but great.

It that ironic or what???



Re: How to soften PVC to reform or shape it. [Re: RParentsail] #263264
09/06/13 08:18 AM
09/06/13 08:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
old hand
samc99us  Offline
old hand
S

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
Tom,

Thank you for the information. The boiling water and/or grill trick seem most appropriate. These can be done outside where there is no risk of releasing harmful chemicals inside your home-just into the atmosphere for your tobacco-smoking neighbors to breath.

To be frank, smoking tobacco, sanding fiberglass and getting drunk are all MUCH less dangerous than breathing dioxins and hydrogen chloride. Most people don't do the above activities inside their homes, and if they do it's usually only once. Hydrogen chloride can cause permanent lung damage with relatively short exposure times. Again, I'm not saying this is a bad idea, just advocating the use of proper safety measures and doing this outside in a well ventilated area counts as a proper safety measure.

It does sound like this is much easier and cheaper than building fiberglass cradles.

Last edited by samc99us; 09/06/13 08:18 AM.

Scorpion F18
Re: How to soften PVC to reform or shape it. [Re: RParentsail] #263266
09/06/13 08:24 AM
09/06/13 08:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Guess I'll stand back a bit more next time I have a tire/pvc fire


I'm boatless.
Re: How to soften PVC to reform or shape it. [Re: tomthouse] #263269
09/06/13 09:06 AM
09/06/13 09:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
old hand
David Parker  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
I used my kitchen oven to soften and reshape thin wall (~3/8") PVC irrigation pipe along with an accurate wired electronic meat thermometer to watch the temperature. Starting at the lowest setting and slowly warming I found that the PVC softened at about 215 degrees Fahrenheit. No smoke, no smell, no HCl, no death.

FWIW, I cut a 12" slice from a 10" diameter pipe, then cut this in half into two arcs. I softened them in the oven and flattened them on the garage floor. I used these flat PVC sheets to make doors for the rest of the pipe to make a cheap sail tube. This worked great and took no time at all. The PVC glues perftectly with regular Oatey PVC glue. I was able to craft and glue hinge brackets and locking mechanism from PVC scraps and PVC glue. Easy stuff.

Also, you can paint PVC by roughing it with 220 grit sandpaper and spraying several light coats of Krylon Fusion plastic paint. No substitutes!

Re: How to soften PVC to reform or shape it. [Re: Karl_Brogger] #263275
09/06/13 10:31 AM
09/06/13 10:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Guess I'll stand back a bit more next time I have a tire/pvc fire


Then how will the marshmallows get toasted with you standing back so far?

Oh,right... use my dandy asbestos skewer


Jay


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