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Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: Jake] #268919
01/29/14 09:34 PM
01/29/14 09:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,221
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
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Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by pgp
I've had Progressive for years, now they're telling me they don't cover racing.

I haven't bought the policy yet,it is for a new chartered boat.


I would check around. This is one area that US Sailing does offer a reasonable benefit. They usually have an insurance agency as a partner that will help with specific sailing related issues.

I have progressive coverage on my boats and they do cover racing...hopefully I'm not about to get a letter.


US Sailing only covers OD class boats. They wouldn't cover an A class. That's why I went to Progressive.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: barbshort] #268920
01/29/14 10:00 PM
01/29/14 10:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 901
Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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U.S Sailing doesn't cover sails. In reality, this is your biggest risk besides catastrophic hull damage while sailing; dumping a rig and shredding the main and jib quickly turns into a $7k+ event. If you don't have insurance on the sails, you're out of pocket $3k+ on the performance side. I will say they (Gowrie) do offer global coverage for <$1000. I forget the fine print, but that might get ya there in the middle of the stream...


F18 Infusion
Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: pgp] #268930
01/30/14 09:25 AM
01/30/14 09:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
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Originally Posted by pgp
I've had Progressive for years, now they're telling me they don't cover racing.

I haven't bought the policy yet,it is for a new chartered boat.


Do they realize it's a beachcat? the policy allows racing for sailboats (only). Says right there on the application page online you fill out... You can select to exclude that coverage ..

I suspect their issue is with the "charter" thing, not the racing thing. I know they frown on you chartering your boat out for a fee (most carriers don't like that either... or they charge you more)

Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 01/30/14 09:26 AM.

Jay

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: samc99us] #268931
01/30/14 09:33 AM
01/30/14 09:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
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Originally Posted by samc99us
I will say they (Gowrie) do offer global coverage for <$1000. I forget the fine print, but that might get ya there in the middle of the stream...


Please do (I think it's on Chubb "paper"). The navigation TERRITORY may be global, but again, the underwriter will look at what the boat design classification is:

A. OCEAN: Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave heights of 4 m and above but excluding abnormal conditions, and vessels largely self-sufficient.

B. OFFSHORE: Designed for waves of up to 4m significant height and a wind of Beaufort force 8 or less. Such conditions may be encountered on offshore voyages of sufficient length or on coasts where shelter may not always be immediately available. Such conditions may also be experienced on inland seas of sufficient size for the wave height to be generated.

C. INSHORE: Designed for waves of up to 2m significant height and a typical steady wind force of Beaufort force 6 or less. Such conditions may be encountered on exposed inland waters, and in coastal waters in moderate weather conditions.

D. SHELTERED WATERS: Designed for voyages on sheltered coastal waters, small bays, small lakes, rivers and canals when conditions up to, and including, wind force 4 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 0.3m may be experienced, with occasional waves of 0.5m maximum height, for example from passing vessels.

I'm pretty sure beachcats are Category B or less.. And I also believe that limits a Cat B boat to less than 25 miles off the coast?


Jay

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: barbshort] #268935
01/30/14 09:54 AM
01/30/14 09:54 AM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M


what the same company covers ... may vary state to state depending on local laws and more probably... profits

i.e. florida may have more racing, and/or more claims compared to other states, and therefore ... sed company won't cover racing in flordida policies but will in another state where it is more profitable to collect the premium, with the lower claim/payout rate

just a guess ... but follow the money

Jay ... any idea if this is correct?

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: waterbug_wpb] #268937
01/30/14 09:59 AM
01/30/14 09:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by pgp
I've had Progressive for years, now they're telling me they don't cover racing.

I haven't bought the policy yet,it is for a new chartered boat.



Do they realize it's a beachcat? the policy allows racing for sailboats (only). Says right there on the application page online you fill out... You can select to exclude that coverage ..

I suspect their issue is with the "charter" thing, not the racing thing. I know they frown on you chartering your boat out for a fee (most carriers don't like that either... or they charge you more)


prolly not.


Last edited by pgp; 01/30/14 10:01 AM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: waterbug_wpb] #268945
01/30/14 11:22 AM
01/30/14 11:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,303
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
...

I'm pretty sure beachcats are Category B or less.. And I also believe that limits a Cat B boat to less than 25 miles off the coast?


so, you've only got about 3 miles between here and the bahamas that your not covered! whistle


Jake Kohl
Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: ] #268946
01/30/14 11:59 AM
01/30/14 11:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 138
Hernando, Florida
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Mlcreek Offline
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Mn3,

Not quite. Insurance companies submit policies largely based on ISO standard forms. ( a normal form or type of policy used across the country) Most big carriers take the standard form and add to it in coverage. This would change the prices. Forms are written for most normal use of the boats. Circumstances as in charter boats can be deemed on coverage for an extra cost. Where you might see a difference in price for the same boat maybe the location and use frequency of the boat. Jay can respond better to rates and configurations.


Forrest
I-20
USA 645

" There ain't enough rum in the drum!"
Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: Mlcreek] #268948
01/30/14 12:28 PM
01/30/14 12:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Do you guys have any understanding how these companies view the findings by a PC under the RRS... do they have a policy. Or do they just view the findings of a PC hearing as just more evidence and put aside a black and white decision of a PC and make an independent judgement about their client's liability.... eg 30%.... or 70% liable and that is what they will pay the other guy?



crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: Jake] #268950
01/30/14 03:17 PM
01/30/14 03:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,221
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
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Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
...

I'm pretty sure beachcats are Category B or less.. And I also believe that limits a Cat B boat to less than 25 miles off the coast?


so, you've only got about 3 miles between here and the bahamas that your not covered! whistle


That's exactly what I was thinking. 3 miles of risk.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: Jake] #268951
01/30/14 03:22 PM
01/30/14 03:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 773
Greenville SC
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bacho  Offline
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Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
...

I'm pretty sure beachcats are Category B or less.. And I also believe that limits a Cat B boat to less than 25 miles off the coast?


so, you've only got about 3 miles between here and the bahamas that your not covered! whistle


But you know what happens as soon as you say that.....

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: bacho] #268953
01/30/14 03:41 PM
01/30/14 03:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 858
Victoria Australia
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Victoria Australia
Originally Posted by bacho
But you know what happens as soon as you say that.....


yep....

the insurance will alter the policy so your now covered an additional 2 miles and charge you 3 times as much

grin


I'll put it out there but is there any reason why you guys cant get a Bahamas company to insure you with say a cover-note or similar, to cover you for the last bit ???

always a way around an issue, just need the right combination of turns to unlock it

wink


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: Pirate] #268954
01/30/14 03:58 PM
01/30/14 03:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,303
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Personally, I feel like we're lucky that insurance companies cover what we do. Just name one other sport that "races" where you can buy insurance for your vehicle? The important things for me are that I (and my crew) are geared up to be personally safe. Then, I make every effort to ensure that my boat is up to the task at hand but if it breaks, I consider getting an insurance payout on anything related to the racing as a bonus.

That said, towing it to and from the event - yeah, I put a good deal of importance on having insurance there.


Jake Kohl
Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: Mark Schneider] #268955
01/30/14 04:13 PM
01/30/14 04:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 138
Hernando, Florida
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Mlcreek Offline
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Hernando, Florida
Mark,

As an adjuster, I would want any and all information when considering liability. I want pictures, statements, estimates, hearings, rules, outcomes of hearings, admissions any and all evidence to make a decision. .Yes, the property liability decision can be made in a hurry, and in fact might recommend that each party use their own first party coverage and then the companies and or adjusters can argue the fine points months later. Of concern is also any potential BI claim for serious bodily injury that might result. So yes a PC's decision would certainly be welcomed and reviewed.


Forrest
I-20
USA 645

" There ain't enough rum in the drum!"
Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: Jake] #268956
01/30/14 04:16 PM
01/30/14 04:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 138
Hernando, Florida
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Mlcreek Offline
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Hernando, Florida
Jake,
You can rest assured that the Underwriters sitting in their cubs in the office building have no earthly idea what a screaming reach is or pitch pole. Or races where you are sliding across mud/sand bars hoping not to tear something up. If they trully knew, you can rest assured your coverage would no longer be cheap. Ask one what would happen if you put a small kicker motor on the back?


Forrest
I-20
USA 645

" There ain't enough rum in the drum!"
Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: barbshort] #268957
01/30/14 04:20 PM
01/30/14 04:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 773
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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bacho  Offline
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Greenville SC
I am in no way suggesting that insurance is a replacement for being prepared.

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: Mlcreek] #268960
01/30/14 09:55 PM
01/30/14 09:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
Thanks Forrest..

That is what I would expect a legit company to do.

If one just looks at situations from the point of view of the RRS.... I believe you are missing the big picture...

(I often get the feeling that people think of their insurance as some sort of magic financial shield which erases your mistakes. (as opposed to a hedge against a liability judgement and then some degree of property protection.)


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: Mark Schneider] #268962
01/31/14 08:07 AM
01/31/14 08:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 138
Hernando, Florida
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Mlcreek Offline
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Mlcreek  Offline
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Hernando, Florida
Mark,

Not to hi jack the thread, but you are correct in what people really dont know what they get for their $200.00 a year. Sure to replace the plastic and carbon is one thing, but to defend the insured in a BI claim at the tune of 50,000-75,000 dollars through trial is a heck of a deal. Where else can you hire $300.00 a hour attorney for a $200.00 a year retainer.


Forrest
I-20
USA 645

" There ain't enough rum in the drum!"
Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: Mlcreek] #268977
01/31/14 01:47 PM
01/31/14 01:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Originally Posted by Mlcreek
Mark,

but to defend the insured in a BI claim at the tune of 50,000-75,000 dollars through trial is a heck of a deal.


Try putting a kid in a wheelchair for the rest of their life. Easy $1M +

Even an old guy with a concussion can score $500k pretty easily if the driver/owner is the least bit negligence


Jay

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 [Re: barbshort] #268979
01/31/14 01:51 PM
01/31/14 01:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,221
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
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Since it seems this insurance discussion is wanted by some, how 'bout starting another thread dedicated to it, and leave this one to the upcoming Florida 300 discussion.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
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