Tracie: are you a nerd or a geek though... thats the modus operandi here :P

Example 2:

Geek:
1.
a. A person regarded as foolish, inept, or clumsy.
b. A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.

2. A carnival performer whose show consists of bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken.

Geek: n : a person with an unusual or odd personality


Nerd:
1. A foolish, inept, or unattractive person.
2. A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.


Just call me geek, minus the biting the head off a live chicken thingie.

Tracie

tami ... tomboy yes, butch no! I'd crew for you any day, always guarranteed fun! (The real kind you jerks, get your mind out of the gutter!)

Thanks Clayton, and I'll get on your boat any day, me too!

I guess the term 'butch' has really been bastardised. To me, 'butch' means a 'boyish girl' rather than 'lesbian.' Sorry to have offended, but then what can one possibly say that doesn't offend someone in this diverse country?

So apparently my semantics got in the way of my POINT??

sea ya
tami

If the women who sail are all tomboys and "butchie," and the guys are all geeks and nerds, sounds like a pretty level playing field.

So now we know that to recruit more sailors, we have to advertise to NOW and to engineering schools.

By the way, I am both a tomboy (climb trees) and a geek (socially inept). This means that I love to skipper, but only if I am the only one on the boat.

Um...I never implied that butch stood for or meant to be a lesbian.

Tracie

Us cajuns look at butch as tomboy + 1. Or she'll kick your #$%& if you look wrong. BTW what is lezbans or what ever? (Just kidding )

Merry Christmas to all from the other 'gater country.

Clayton

I'm still wondering how people define "tomboy." Does it have something to do with what you look like, how you are built, what you wear, how you talk? How do you KNOW that a woman is a tomboy? And what does it MEAN to be a tomboy?

I am having an identity crisis.

Webster's says:

Hmmm...that begs the question: then what does it mean to behave in a boyish manner?

I guess if she sails then she is a tomboy and if she beats you at the races then she is a ____________ . (better sailor than you)

Mary, I'll go out on a limb here (if someone cuts the limb out from under me you'll be the blame )

IMO a tomboy will wear a dress if forced to, and play the games that normally guys play even if it means injury is imminent. They are tougher than most and probably will not be found behind a desk answering phones for a stuffed shirt corporate executive. Not that there is anything wrong with that of course (dang you've got to cover your #$% nowadays).

Butch, IMO, is being more like a man than most men and is not into mushy stuff like, well ... dating, dancing, watching movies that don't include machine guns and blowing up stuff.

I'll stop now before I start to get hate mail.

Clayton

The interesting question is where did the name "tomboy" come from--that is, what is its derivation? Its kind of fun to look up common phrases to see how they derived. Its surprising how many come from nautical terms. For example, "three sheets to the wind", which means someone out of control (usually drunk) comes from the fact that small sailing sloops have three sheets that control the sails; starboard and port jib sheets and a main sheet. If the sloop was "three sheets to the wind", it meant that the boat had all its control lines flying downwind, not cleated to anything and therefore not controlling the sails or boat. Anyone else have some common phrases that have interesting origins?

Merry Christmas to all! Santa is on his way!
David
H20

Rick has given me his opinion of what a tomboy is. He says it is a woman who can be very feminine but who also can play on a co-ed softball team, play tennis, sail, ride a motorcycle, intelligently discuss sports with the guys, cook, sew, clean house, take out the garbage, chop wood and stoke the stove, feed the pets, and nurture children. He said, in other words, a tomboy is a well-rounded woman.

So I asked him what you call a man who can play football, race motocross, play tennis, play softball in a co-ed league and also can intelligently discuss fashion and hair styles with the ladies, cook, sew, clean house and nurture children. I asked, “Wouldn’t that be a well-rounded man?” Rick said, “No, that would be a sissy.”

(Webster's Dictionary, please take note.)

Thank you Rick,

and apparently you left out "shoot her Ruger .22 and her Mauser 30.06 more accurately than her ex AND her beau".

I'm different than most girls, and I'm ok with that, whatever they want to call it, I dont givash*t. Why do you care, you?

sea ya
tami

I'll back Rick on that definition.

My goddaughter will be here tomorrow. She's been on the catsailors site and found the 12:1 [I bought ] in a pic. She now says "that since a I have 2 mainsheets systems one can go on ths FMS20" so she "can handle the skipper duties her self". She has mastered the wrapping an old man around her little finger part and is well on her way into manipulating me into giving her the boat to sail. But she does it in a straight forwrd manner. "You're gonna give me that boat after you teach me to sail it." At least i get to go...

The input of some on this thread has highlighted her behavior. She likes road bikes, playing softball/soccer, Nascar, watching football, catsailing, trisailing, refinishing hulls, talking to old men in controlled scenarios [rest homes, church, marinas, etc] as well as trying to con me out of my dog...[dog is off limits even though when she spends the night I never see the dog]. I would call her a young "Charlie" girl for those old enough to remember. She likes jeans but will dress up without a fuss for an occasion that requires it. Does not like/wear much makeup or jewelry. She likes her hair long but keeps it mostly in a pony tail style with no hair on her face.

Tomorrow we put the F25c in the water and she will start the outboard without help from me. This I want to see but I have no doubt it will happen because shes read the manual several times. We maybe there all day but it will start.

I hope you all have as good a Christmas day as i know I will,

thom

How about "He is a loose cannon" ?

Comes from the old sailing battleships on which the mouth loaded cannons needed to be pulled back to relaod and than push forward out of their ports to fire. The cannons were on wheels therefor and kept in check by many ropes (ooops lines) and pully blocks. Sometime a cannon brok loose and the rolling of the ship in the waves would run the heavy cannon on wheels all around over the gundeck or just straight through the wood work on the otherside taking everything with it. Try to stop on of those ! Hence "loose cannon" = Big trouble


Wouter

So ...

What ever the defintions are we don't have enough of them right ?

And that goes for the sissies as well !

Wouter

Why male ear piercing of the left ear is cool and the right is not:

As I learned this morning from Tim Zimmermann's book "The Race", in the mid 1800's the world had just figured out that it made more sense to sail from Australia and China back to England (or to the eastern U.S.) by sailing the Southern Ocean in a route of circumnavigation. It became customary and dignified for sailors who had sailed around Cape Horn of South America to pierce the ear closest to the Cape as they blew past (and survived)...the left ear. And with this I presume that to pierce the right ear meant you were clearly headed in the wrong direction!

Speaking of definitions, and back on the topic of this thread, perhaps I should rephrase my original question and ask "Why so few women on the HELM?"

To me, skipper and helmsperson are not synonymous words. On a two-person cat, there is a helmsperson (driver) and a foredeck person (sail-handler). Both of those people are members of the crew. And either of them can be the skipper. The skipper is the person who calls the shots, makes the decisions, plans the tactics and strategy, decides when to zig and when to zag.

Sometimes the skipper is the driver and sometimes he or she is the sail-handler.

I can understand why a lot of women do not feel comfortable with being the skipper, but I can NOT understand why they would not want to drive if the other crew member is the skipper.

Obviously, driving is the least physically demanding job and, in most cases, best suited to a woman (lighter touch on the helm, better feel for the speed, more able to focus and concentrate on the telltales and keeping the boat in the groove). Women learn this stuff really fast.

In the light to moderate wind conditions that dominate most of the U.S. in the summer, it makes the most sense for the woman to be at the back of the boat steering and the man up forward where most cats need the weight in light air. In heavier air where you need the weight back (and where the woman might be more intimidated steering in big seas and wind), switch and put the woman in front and the man in back.

And you can even switch positions during the race, depending upon who does what best on different parts of the race course. Back in his early days on the Tornado, Rick put his youngest son (about 10 years old at the time) on the helm so that Rick could be out on the trapeze and handle the sails and call the shots. Rick would be on the helm for the start and maybe for crucial mark roundings, and then they would switch places so Todd could steer and Rick could be in a better position to balance the boat and trim the sails and call the shots on the open portions of the course.

If a 10-year-old child can helm a Tornado, any grown woman ought to be able to helm any beach-cat.