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Re: Tornado US Natls...poor turn out [Re: Mark Schneider] #27146
12/19/03 05:10 PM
12/19/03 05:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 284
S. Florida
BRoberts Offline
enthusiast
BRoberts  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 284
S. Florida
Hello Tornado Sailors and Others,
If the system is working right, the other multihull classes are feeder classes to the Tornado class. The Tornado class is the Olympic class, as we all know, therefore it is the class with the best sailors. Sailors who become champions in X, Y, or Z class, if they want to try for a higher level of sailing capability, they can get in the Tornado class and strive to become an even better sailor. To win a gold medal in the Olympics is the best, highest level of achievement, there is in any sport.
The Tornado is the Olympic class not because it is the fastest catamaran and not because it is a big class, but because it is the most responsive catamaran sailboat to excellent sailing skills. The Tornado class is to sailing what the Gaint Downhill ski slope is to snow skiing.
Bill

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Tornado US Natls...poor turn out [Re: BRoberts] #27147
12/19/03 06:50 PM
12/19/03 06:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Hi Bill

You wrote:
Hello Tornado Sailors and Others,
If the system is working right, the other multihull classes are feeder classes to the Tornado class.

Respectfully, what nonsense is this? There is no system at play here. The US Sailing coach is NOT approaching the current I20 or Hobie 16 national champ and recruiting them to campaign for the Olympic berth. Moreover, the Olympic boats are not selected based on their being the pinnacle of anything. They are chosen through hard ball politics of the sailing federations world wide in order to span the spectrum of sailing competition world wide.

Without that Olympic carrot… the North American Tornado class would resemble the Shark class with just a few stalwart clubs and a handful of devoted fans continuing to race the boat.

The attrition rate of the Tornado Class is about the same as the attrition rate within the Hobie 16 class (Once upon a time…. 1,000 racers competing nationally… now 100, Tornado’s… Perhaps 50 now down to 5) The Tornado’s were sailed at the club level in yacht clubs…. Hobies were sailed at the club level off a beach. The two cultures were different and proud of it.

What remains of the Tornado class are the few teams who commit blood sweat and tears for a chance at an Olympic medal. If the Olympic microscope were turned onto a Hobie 16…. You would likely see the same dynamics observed in the Tornado class (Huge travel demands to find elite competition, equipment upgrades, coaching, intense competitiveness, marginalization of the club sailor) take over and dominate this class as well because the stakes would be high. It has nothing to do with the boat itself.

Take Care
Mark


crac.sailregattas.com
Ahh yeah obviously (nm) [Re: Stewart] #27148
12/19/03 07:10 PM
12/19/03 07:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Tornado US Natls...poor turn out [Re: Mark Schneider] #27149
12/19/03 09:36 PM
12/19/03 09:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mark, you're negative and pessimistic and RIGHT.

Re: Tornado US Natls...poor turn out [Re: Mark Schneider] #27150
12/20/03 12:24 AM
12/20/03 12:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 284
S. Florida
BRoberts Offline
enthusiast
BRoberts  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 284
S. Florida
Mark,
If the US Sailing Coaches are not out looking in other catamaran classes for talent, then they are not doing their job well. When I was sailing Flying Dutchman, the USISA reps were looking at other high performance monohull class champions to Woo them into the Dutchman class. Frequently they were loaned boats for try-outs at major FD regattas. You make it sound like someone has lost their 'how to be a good coach 'book. What I am talking about is 'Coaching Basics 101'.
Bill

Re: Tornado US Natls...poor turn out [Re: BRoberts] #27151
12/20/03 12:24 PM
12/20/03 12:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 894
Branford, CT
rhodysail Offline
old hand
rhodysail  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 894
Branford, CT
About the coaching
problem number one is that there is no full time Tornado coach because there is no money.
You can help: http://www.ussailing.org/olympics/2004/Winning/Voyage_to_Athens.htm

Re: Tornado US Natls...poor turn out [Re: Mary] #27152
12/20/03 02:28 PM
12/20/03 02:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Hi Mary

Sadly so I'm afraid.

In order to find solutions you must first generate a consensus that something is wrong... stop digging.... identify what is wrong and then get everyone on board and agree on a solution.

You know my solution. Beach sailors should join or form clubs with mast up storage to create a home base. Racing should be inclusive by using the Portsmouth system of level or similar boats. We should make sure we create B fleets for the entry or recreational racers. National events are the place for class or formula championships.

Take Care
Mark



crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Tornado US Natls...poor turn out [Re: Mark Schneider] #27153
12/20/03 03:28 PM
12/20/03 03:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mark, do you guys have mast-up storage on the Chesapeake?

Re: Tornado US Natls...poor turn out [Re: Mary] #27154
12/20/03 10:18 PM
12/20/03 10:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Hi Mary

We have 4 clubs in the region.

Rehoboth Bay Yacht Club (2 hours East from the Bay Bridge) is home to an active Hobie fleet. They hosted the 16 Nationals last year. They have Sunday racing with mast up storage.

WestRiver Catamran Racing Association has mast up storage on the West River about 1/2 hour South of the Bay Bridge. They have a very active Tuesday night racing program with up to 25 boats racing from Supercat 22's down to Prindle 16's and Hobie 18's. .... I think they averaged over 12 boats turnout every night this past season. They may also be expanding into a traditional Dinghy club just down the river this season. They are the most succesfull club in the Balto,Washington Annapolis area and prove the point that Weeknight racing is just popular!!!

Potomac River Sailing Club is 1 hour West of the bridge near National Airport in DC... they are predomoninately a Hobie 16 club and also have a Sunday race series on the River.

Podickery Point Yacht club is really a marina. We have a growing fleet and have planed 4 races with the Gibson Island Monohull fleet for this coming season. We are joined by several members of Hobie 54 who have private property about 3 miles up the coast towards Baltimore.

We encourage everyone to join one of these clubs which match up to your schedule, pocketbook and taste.

Take Care
Mark


crac.sailregattas.com
Bills right about beam [Re: Mark Schneider] #27155
12/20/03 11:48 PM
12/20/03 11:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
veteran
dave mosley  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
Ive sailed all kinds of cats, and there is nothing out there that compares to the acceleration and stability of the SC 20 et al with wider beams. Even the I 20 I sail now cant compare. And with those huge boards, the boat will tack like a monohull.
Very Impressive, you should try it.

David Mosley
www.seacats.org


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





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