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Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race #272729
05/23/14 02:42 PM
05/23/14 02:42 PM
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catandahalf Offline OP
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With its original roots being formed in 1850 (See this month's issue of Sailing World & Troy Gilbert's story) the annual Gulf Yachting Association Gulfport MS to Pensacola Race, is hosting a full multihull Division for beach catamarans (DPN) and trimarans (PHRF). This marks the first time in such a history catamarans have been welcomed.

The NoR link is below.
http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/regatta_uploads/8413/2014G2PNORPKG.pdf

This might fit in as a tune up for the Great Texas 300 or satisfy that need for offshore speed.

The Multihull Council will be calling the rules and standards for safety and scoring. They can throw Great parties at Gulfport Yacht Club, and the award ceremony will be quite festive. One year we sold enough bushwackers to buy a center console powerboat for our junior program at PYC.

The NoR features many of the safety requirements, and the MHC will be guiding us through this when Randy gets back from Hawaii. He is pushing for some of the Everglades Challengers, from the water tribe to attend. We will see if we can make those sailors happy and keep the Southern Yacht Club BoD from worry.

Contact me with a private e-mail if you have questions.
Bert Rice, Safety Committee Chairman (FWYC/PBYC)

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: catandahalf] #272730
05/23/14 03:52 PM
05/23/14 03:52 PM
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mikekrantz Offline
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I've done it on big boats a bunch of times, even did it on the R33 one year. But I've always had the jones to do it on a beach cat. This could be the year...

Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: mikekrantz] #272731
05/23/14 04:08 PM
05/23/14 04:08 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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interesting....but here we go again with the tether for multihull including while trapzeing. I am not a fan of the tether. To my knowledge, I don't know of a single instance where it has provided anyone an advantage. I feel that it is much more of an entanglement liability and serves to potentially keel-haul you if you fall overboard. I've been personally involved with an offshore capsize with a dangerous entanglement issue that was close to becoming life threatening. I just can't imagine any scenario that I would want to be tethered to the boat in sailing conditions.

Having one "on my person ready and available to be used", however, I think is smart - it could come in handy in all sorts of situations.


Jake Kohl
Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: Jake] #272733
05/23/14 09:42 PM
05/23/14 09:42 PM
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catandahalf Offline OP
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Jake and all,

I have always used a harness and a strap to the appropriate attachment point on the boat, which varies. Nowdays the length is the study point for planers and soon to foil guys. I have not been in a serious offshore race, since the seventies, and not found the time to break out the harness line and hook on if the need be.

I told Bob Hodges the secret lies in the line, "trapeze wires may be synthetic."... means modern tethers may be much lighter and stronger than the old style Forespars with the heavy shackles and strapping - very bulky to wear on deck, but I was always glad to have it when changing sails during a storm at night, offshore.

The jury is out on this until Randy, a member of our safety committee, returns from Hawaii. He will know the latest and wisest course to take.

I have never used a tether on a catamaran because I firmly held the sheets, but with synthetics and safe knives - why not? We just need to find the magic length for the trimarans and catamarans. Tea bagging at night ain't fun, but swimming alone with a PFD, tracking device, and strobe may not be preferred as well. Our boats do not sink, so I say we stay hooked in when necessary, and stow the tether when not in use. Just have one on!!! I used my foul weather gear pockets to hide mine from my feet and hands.

The safety committee will issue an announcement after Randy gets back.

Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: mikekrantz] #272734
05/23/14 09:48 PM
05/23/14 09:48 PM
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catandahalf Offline OP
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Mike,

I remember you and Rick ripping down the coast that year like you were a beach cat:-)

Y'all had her all nice and tied up pretty in the slip by the time we got in on the C 24.

Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: catandahalf] #272737
05/24/14 06:51 AM
05/24/14 06:51 AM
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Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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It's impossible to enforce the use of a tether once the team leaves the beach, at best it will be a guideline and a personal choice made by the team.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: catandahalf] #272738
05/24/14 08:13 AM
05/24/14 08:13 AM
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jaybird1111 Offline
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I'd heard that G to P was making an outreach to multihulls. I had considered entering the race until I heard that Bert Rice was involved. I've been avoiding races run by him for the past six years because of prior bad experiences.

oh well, count this multihull out.

Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: jaybird1111] #272943
05/31/14 02:38 PM
05/31/14 02:38 PM
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catandahalf Offline OP
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I finally spoke with Randy this morning at FWYC where he is putting on a trimaran racing clinic. We both agreed the safety recommendations are sound, and the OA from Southern Yacht Club is hoping multihulls return for another go.

The race can last all night on a trimaran, but Gene Wallet owns the unofficial record (almost forty years old) on a Pacific catamaran. If I remember the boat even flew a kite. He finished before dawn, I believe.

I meant to add that our next offshore racing adventure will be the RtI in September, and we are shooting for a division of small tris and an "Everglades Challenge" - style, course format.

Last edited by catandahalf; 05/31/14 02:42 PM.
Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: catandahalf] #272987
06/02/14 05:33 PM
06/02/14 05:33 PM
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catandahalf Offline OP
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News on Safety update: One of the tri sailors has appealed the OA for the same safety requirements as the monohull entries, and that has reached the OA channel for review. The issue is now EPIRBs and PLBs.

The jury is out, so more clarification will be required. At least the process is working before - hand, in order to make the challenge more friendly but keep it safe.

Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: catandahalf] #272993
06/03/14 07:12 AM
06/03/14 07:12 AM
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brucat Offline
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Interesting point. If the OA feels strongly that the multihulls entering this regatta are less inherently safe than the monohulls, you can (and should) have different requirements. This may not turn out to be a popular decision amongst potential entries.

Another way to go is to list those devices as strong recommendations (not requirements) for all boats in the regatta.

Mike

Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: David Ingram] #272996
06/03/14 09:57 AM
06/03/14 09:57 AM
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Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
It's impossible to enforce the use of a tether once the team leaves the beach, at best it will be a guideline and a personal choice made by the team.


Sailing is not football... it's not a game about what you can get away with under the nose of the official... its not about bending the rules....

Agree with the rules or don't race... You follow the rules... or you don't race sailboats... It should never be about enforcing the rules.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: Mark Schneider] #272999
06/03/14 11:17 AM
06/03/14 11:17 AM
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Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Originally Posted by David Ingram
It's impossible to enforce the use of a tether once the team leaves the beach, at best it will be a guideline and a personal choice made by the team.


Sailing is not football... it's not a game about what you can get away with under the nose of the official... its not about bending the rules....

Agree with the rules or don't race... You follow the rules... or you don't race sailboats... It should never be about enforcing the rules.


Point made. I will not be attending ANY regatta where a rule made up by an uneducated OA has the potental to reduce my safety at sea. Although it could be a nice payday for my widow and her new husband. How did your first husband die Ms. Kathy... He got tangled in his mandated teather and drown and it worked out for Pedro and I and nicely.

In an effort for an OA to reduce their liability they end up exposing themselves further. Still seems like saftey at sea issues should be guidelines not rules. Right up there with it's your decision and your decision only if you push off the beach or not.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: David Ingram] #273000
06/03/14 11:59 AM
06/03/14 11:59 AM
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Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Originally Posted by David Ingram
It's impossible to enforce the use of a tether once the team leaves the beach, at best it will be a guideline and a personal choice made by the team.


Sailing is not football... it's not a game about what you can get away with under the nose of the official... its not about bending the rules....

Agree with the rules or don't race... You follow the rules... or you don't race sailboats... It should never be about enforcing the rules.


Point made. I will not be attending ANY regatta where a rule made up by an uneducated OA has the potental to reduce my safety at sea. Although it could be a nice payday for my widow and her new husband. How did your first husband die Ms. Kathy... He got tangled in his mandated teather and drown. It worked out for me and Pedro nicely.

In an effort for an OA to reduce their liability they end up exposing themselves further. Still seems like saftey at see issues should be guidelinds not rules. Right up there with it's your decision and your decision only if you push off the beach or not.


+1

Having myself tethered to the boat (small, extremely maneuverable multihull) can most definitely be a liability. I won't race with one attached. Have you ever had your sailing buddy say to you "don't let me die, dude" as he's being dragged under water tangled up in a turtling boat? I have and we both narrowly avoided the worst [censored] awful situation (particularly him). You'll never convince me to purposely clip myself into a boat that could easily end up flipping, twisting, rolling, and upside down. No way.

And as Dave pointed out - for the OA to require it is putting them in a potentially tough spot too. Require things that aren't potential liabilities - EPIRBs, VHFs, float plans, charts, flares, etc. If you feel the need to mention them, advise/suggest things that carry some liability with them.

Requiring a personal tether on a boat that is more stable upside down that it is right side up is a gigantic liability.


Jake Kohl
Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: catandahalf] #273004
06/03/14 12:47 PM
06/03/14 12:47 PM
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brucat Offline
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Not taking sides, I will add here that I've seen tethers required by cat clubs before, and these were experienced cat sailors (really old New England 100 days). IIRC, they were required on the boat, but you didn't have to be clipped in.

Tethers, like PFDs, are tough. People have been trapped under boats and unable to escape without removing their PFD. Others have been saved only because of the PFD. Other than probabilities, one group isn't more "right" than the other.

Bring dragged behind a boat is no fun, neither is having the boat drift away from you with no rescue boat in sight. Would make the EPIRB and VHF on your person suddenly much more important, though...

Mike

Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: brucat] #273005
06/03/14 01:24 PM
06/03/14 01:24 PM
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Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Originally Posted by brucat
Not taking sides, I will add here that I've seen tethers required by cat clubs before, and these were experienced cat sailors (really old New England 100 days). IIRC, they were required on the boat, but you didn't have to be clipped in.

Tethers, like PFDs, are tough. People have been trapped under boats and unable to escape without removing their PFD. Others have been saved only because of the PFD. Other than probabilities, one group isn't more "right" than the other.

Bring dragged behind a boat is no fun, neither is having the boat drift away from you with no rescue boat in sight. Would make the EPIRB and VHF on your person suddenly much more important, though...

Mike


Mike,

Saying you've seen the tether requirement before and it was supported by very experienced sailors (in your opinion btw) doesn't really make as strong a point as you think it does. Just because someone else does or says something won't change my position unless they have a very compelling argument. I have an EPIRB on my person (my crew does too) I'm NOT tieing myself to the boat. If that's a rule then so be it, I have other options.

And for f!@k sake take a position! The middle of the road is completely uninteresting. Even though Mark annoys the piss out of me he almost never bores me. When he channels Wouter is when he bores me.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: brucat] #273006
06/03/14 01:27 PM
06/03/14 01:27 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Originally Posted by brucat
Not taking sides, I will add here that I've seen tethers required by cat clubs before, and these were experienced cat sailors (really old New England 100 days). IIRC, they were required on the boat, but you didn't have to be clipped in.

Tethers, like PFDs, are tough. People have been trapped under boats and unable to escape without removing their PFD. Others have been saved only because of the PFD. Other than probabilities, one group isn't more "right" than the other.

Bring dragged behind a boat is no fun, neither is having the boat drift away from you with no rescue boat in sight. Would make the EPIRB and VHF on your person suddenly much more important, though...

Mike


"Experienced" doesn't necessarily equal "smart".

I get PFDs. The risk and severity of the issue that the extra buoyancy could trap me under something on the boat is pretty small compared to the likely hood I would not be able to tread water for the length of time I might need before being rescued.

The level of risk I carry with getting separated from the boat (while I have a PFD, EPIRB, and VFD on me) is much lower than the risk of the entanglement that could kill me if the boat flips, rolls, and turtles. That one gives me about 1 minute, and my buddy an additional 3 or 4 assuming he can administer CPR on an upside down catamaran, to figure out how I survive. On the other hand, if I got separated from the boat with the typical gear I wear, I've probably got 48 hours or more (since I carry water in my PFD too) to figure something out. If nothing else, I'll take the option with extra time.

Now, I do believe in CARRYING a tether that is tied to me. You never know when being able to throw 20 feet of line to something might come in really handy...just not with both ends clipped in with the intent to keep me with the boat.


Jake Kohl
Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: catandahalf] #273007
06/03/14 02:53 PM
06/03/14 02:53 PM
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Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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Being tied to my boat would be a deal breaker for me.

Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: catandahalf] #273008
06/03/14 03:18 PM
06/03/14 03:18 PM
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brucat Offline
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I actually agree with you guys, if it matters. But, there is always more than one way to look at things.

Mike

Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: brucat] #273009
06/03/14 03:36 PM
06/03/14 03:36 PM
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Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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[Linked Image]


Jay

Re: Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race [Re: David Ingram] #273012
06/03/14 04:18 PM
06/03/14 04:18 PM
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Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by brucat
Not taking sides, I will add here that I've seen tethers required by cat clubs before, and these were experienced cat sailors (really old New England 100 days). IIRC, they were required on the boat, but you didn't have to be clipped in.

Tethers, like PFDs, are tough. People have been trapped under boats and unable to escape without removing their PFD. Others have been saved only because of the PFD. Other than probabilities, one group isn't more "right" than the other.

Bring dragged behind a boat is no fun, neither is having the boat drift away from you with no rescue boat in sight. Would make the EPIRB and VHF on your person suddenly much more important, though...

Mike


Mike,

Saying you've seen the tether requirement before and it was supported by very experienced sailors (in your opinion btw) doesn't really make as strong a point as you think it does. Just because someone else does or says something won't change my position unless they have a very compelling argument. I have an EPIRB on my person (my crew does too) I'm NOT tieing myself to the boat. If that's a rule then so be it, I have other options.

And for f!@k sake take a position! The middle of the road is completely uninteresting. Even though Mark annoys the piss out of me he almost never bores me. When he channels Wouter is when he bores me.


I WAS one of those "really old New England 100 days" sailors. They didn't make you tie yourself to the boat, you had to have the means to do it if you wanted to, lots of races do that. They also made you carry an anchor which generally did more harm to your boat in waves than good if you tried to use it in the rocks. The GT300 likes you tied to the boat also as well as leaving your VHF on all the time , so when you really need it ,it's dead. Not me, ain't doing it. I as well have been tangled under a turtled boat and will do everything in my power to make sure it doesn't happen again. OAs don't want to hear experiences, they just want liability mitigation, which they aren't going to get by increasing risk with mandates.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
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