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Dyneema trap lines atachment. #276694
12/14/14 07:54 PM
12/14/14 07:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline OP
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Dazz  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
About to replace my dyneema trap lines and looking at the options for attaching them to the hounds.

I am thinking it should have some sort of cover to prevent chafe from the spin halyard. Looked at the falcon setup and they have thimbles on all four lines.

any really good suggestions or setups out there?


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: Dazz] #276696
12/14/14 09:49 PM
12/14/14 09:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
J
JACKFLASH Offline
enthusiast
JACKFLASH  Offline
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J
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
We use one continous line for both traps on each side with a stainless thimble locked in with a Brummell splice. I used to slide plastic tubing up there for fear of chafe, but I stopped doing that some time ago as there was never any wear marks on the rubber.


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: Dazz] #276715
12/15/14 07:43 PM
12/15/14 07:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 54
D
dr5e14w Offline
journeyman
dr5e14w  Offline
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D
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 54
I make a long spliced loop and put a cover over the loop so if the cover starts to chafe you have time to notice before the dyneema chafes

Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: JACKFLASH] #276749
12/17/14 05:37 PM
12/17/14 05:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172
Anacortes
Sloansailing Offline
member
Sloansailing  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172
Anacortes
Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
We use one continous line for both traps on each side with a stainless thimble locked in with a Brummell splice. I used to slide plastic tubing up there for fear of chafe, but I stopped doing that some time ago as there was never any wear marks on the rubber.


This is definitely the wrong way. Doing it this way will load the fibers at the crossover and not in the bury (because there isn't any) and ultimately lead to broken lines much sooner than if they are spliced independently.

Splice them each independently with some cover over the loop. Replace every 2 seasons to make sure they are OK (spectra is cheap).


Anacortes Rigging.com
Rigging and Yacht Services
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: Dazz] #276753
12/18/14 10:22 AM
12/18/14 10:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 62
K
KMarshack Offline
journeyman
KMarshack  Offline
journeyman
K
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 62
Ian is right. Don't ask me how I know. Always gives at the big events...like Worlds!

Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: KMarshack] #276754
12/18/14 11:04 AM
12/18/14 11:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
I also had a failure at Worlds. I've gone back to wire, it's a freaking F18!


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: Dazz] #276755
12/18/14 01:46 PM
12/18/14 01:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,117
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,117
Northfield Mn
I like dyneema for two reasons. It's easy to make your own and dealing with them when setting up or tearing down the boat.

I splice a loop and put a piece of cover on it as well. I haven't had one break yet, (fingers crossed), but I'm pretty good about inspecting and not risking it if they look sketchy. Losing your boat as a singlehander is not awesome.

In corpus, Robbie and I were double trapped going to weather when the return part let go. I hung onto the mainsheet and drug the boat to a stop. Power flushed my sinuses on that one, and I think I just about dislocated a thumb with my death grip on the main sheet.

Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: Karl_Brogger] #276756
12/18/14 02:21 PM
12/18/14 02:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger

In corpus, Robbie and I were double trapped going to weather when the return part let go. I hung onto the mainsheet and drug the boat to a stop. Power flushed my sinuses on that one, and I think I just about dislocated a thumb with my death grip on the main sheet.


You guys know it's a 180 kg boat by class rule, right?

How many times are you going to build a rope trap to the number of times I'm going to have to replace my wire trap? And I'll bet you an adult beverage I can build a wire trap faster than you can make a rope trap.

I won't use a rope trap but I absoluty encourage my competition to use rope, it's the best thing EVER!

Last edited by David Ingram; 12/18/14 02:23 PM.

David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: Dazz] #276757
12/18/14 03:54 PM
12/18/14 03:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 376
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
enthusiast
rehmbo  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 376
SE MI / NE IN
Just for the record, wire traps aren't invincible either - don't ask me how I know...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-kezBD2PDs

In this case, the wire had fatigued right at the thimble/handle junction in an area where you would never be able to see it. Needless to say, the whole lot got replaced.

One minor advantage of the spectra lines is they're a bit easier to manage in the rigging box.


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: rehmbo] #276759
12/18/14 04:13 PM
12/18/14 04:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by rehmbo
Just for the record, wire traps aren't invincible either - don't ask me how I know...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-kezBD2PDs

In this case, the wire had fatigued right at the thimble/handle junction in an area where you would never be able to see it. Needless to say, the whole lot got replaced.

One minor advantage of the spectra lines is they're a bit easier to manage in the rigging box.


Oh I agree, wire rot happens but what vintage was that Tiger? :-) Just to be clear I'm not encouraging anyone to use wire traps. Gawd I can be such a tool! :-)


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: Dazz] #276760
12/18/14 04:30 PM
12/18/14 04:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 376
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
enthusiast
rehmbo  Offline
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Posts: 376
SE MI / NE IN
It's an '02 I believe. No idea if the wires had ever been replaced - obviously overdue. And to your implied point, no way spectra would have lasted 1/2 that long.

Last edited by rehmbo; 12/18/14 04:30 PM.

Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: rehmbo] #276761
12/18/14 04:47 PM
12/18/14 04:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by rehmbo
It's an '02 I believe. No idea if the wires had ever been replaced - obviously overdue. And to your implied point, no way spectra would have lasted 1/2 that long.


Damnit! Just can't spin you guys up today. Where is Hart and Pollard, they where always in for an old fashion **** storm. Even Mark S is playing nice, damn that Obama he is just f'in up everything.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: David Ingram] #276762
12/18/14 05:47 PM
12/18/14 05:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
they're saving up for the healthcare fines


Jay

Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: Dazz] #276767
12/19/14 08:16 PM
12/19/14 08:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline OP
addict
Dazz  Offline OP
addict
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Thanks for the input guys!

More than a few interesting points raised, some of them are definitely down to personal preference.

in 2009 we replace the wire trap line on the capricorn with 3mm dyneema, sailed almost 5 seasons with that set before replacing them early this years because we were going to the Oz nationals and were not not keen on anything breaking. I copied the way Macca setup his tornado and used two small shackles on either side of the main shackle to move the rope away from the wear area. there was no cover for chafe and they still looked in pretty good shape. the boat sits out side 12 months of the year with the mast up on trailer. so they copped plenty of UV! Prior to that I was replacing wires every 2 seasons or less.

pic of macca's setup:

[Linked Image]

When i picked up the C2 this year it had a single loop and a cover over the rope, what I didnt know is that it was being held with a knot to keep the sides fixed. that knot formed a weak point and eventually would break. (about 20 meters from a finishing line) There is a lot to like about this system over the 2 shackles, there is no clunking when changing tacks, and getting the trap line straight when rigging up was so much easier. With less shackles also come reduced risk of things getting caught and wear on the spin halyard.

pic of the single loop system:

[Linked Image]

so with the view to keeping the loops, not having thimbles or shackles, making the system chafe resistant, and separating the two sides I have made two thick dyneema loops, to attach to the main shackle, then spliced the trap lines onto those loops. I figured if the loops are free then every time the mast goes up and down they will move to a new wear point.

pic of the new loops:

[Linked Image]


Been using the Ronstan RF5122R trap handles for a while now with shock blocks for the turning blocks, have to admit to being very impressed with them and recommend them highly.

[Linked Image]

Oh well we will have to wait and see how they hold up.


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: David Ingram] #276768
12/19/14 08:29 PM
12/19/14 08:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline OP
addict
Dazz  Offline OP
addict
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Originally Posted by David Ingram

You guys know it's a 180 kg boat by class rule, right?


At our last nationals there were about 40 boats, only a few were under weight, most were between 4-10kg over and quite a number 10+ honestly I don't know how much difference it makes on the race course, crew weights varied by more than 50 kilos with a few in the 200kg + category. On land I would prefer the boat to be as close to the 180 as possible (the old boat was 3.8 under and the current is 2.5) certainly makes pushing them around that little bit easier.


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: David Ingram] #276769
12/19/14 10:53 PM
12/19/14 10:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 709
mikekrantz Offline
old hand
mikekrantz  Offline
old hand
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 709
I'll take that build challenge, and raise you a cigar...

Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: mikekrantz] #276772
12/20/14 08:54 AM
12/20/14 08:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by mikekrantz
I'll take that build challenge, and raise you a cigar...


Done! Either way it goes it's a win win :-)


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: David Ingram] #276790
12/22/14 12:02 PM
12/22/14 12:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
weigh in for crews must be fun.

Did you see that article on SA about the UFC guys losing up to 30 lbs before weigh in and gain it back within 24 hours of the match.

oy


Jay

Re: Dyneema trap lines atachment. [Re: waterbug_wpb] #276791
12/22/14 12:10 PM
12/22/14 12:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
weigh in for crews must be fun.

Did you see that article on SA about the UFC guys losing up to 30 lbs before weigh in and gain it back within 24 hours of the match.

oy


We are a long way from there and beachcat sailing works the opposite way. You want to make weight and then lose it for the competition (typically). Teams have been busted for weight infractions and I'll never understand why a team will risk their standing in a regatta for a couple of kilo's, but it happens and it's dealt with.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"

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