I know we have folks on here who have actually done some Worrell's so I'm wondering if anyone has a budget they could share?

As catamaran races go, the east coast distance races are some of the more expensive due to the fact that you are stopping in a new beach resort area every night. So hotels are expensive since you need to be right on the beach.

For the Worrell you'd need at least one hotel room per night for 16 nights, but probably two because of the need for ground crew.

RV's would save cash but aren't practical for everyone due to the lack of parking at most stops, hard enough to find a place for the trailers the ground crew are pulling.

So besides the entry fee (not nothing) and 32 nights in a hotel at $200-$300 per night what are the other major expenses?

Ideas for shaving down the budget?

The original bandit race, everyone leave Fort Lauderdale and let us know when you get to the bar at Virginia Beach, sleep on the beach when you have to, no support... was a lot cheaper!

Food - budget $35/person/day at a minimum and you'll still be eating a lot of cereal and sandwiches.

And don’t forget about all the spare parts; mast, rudders, dagger boards, sails, maybe a hull oe two. Those surf launching an landings can bust a lot of stuff when it’s blowing hard on shore.

Instead of stocking up on rudders, daggerboards, masts, sails, and a gazillion small parts that can break. We typically bought a complete used boat, carried it as a spare, and sold it after the event...

For the Tybee campaigns, we typically covered all expenses for the ground crew and had at least two Hotel rooms at each stop. One year I think we actually ran three rooms once when we had a bigger crew and could afford the privacy. I figure those averaged about $130/night per room thanks to some of the deals the race management cut with the hotels (but that was some time ago). Some were up to $180/night, some at $80/night, most around $110-$120. Food at $35/day is probably a minimum. A little privacy goes a long way toward low stress. Ground crewing sounds like a relaxing jog up the coast but it is absolutely hard stressful work. Sailors need to do all they can do to help ease that work load - pack your own stuff up neat and tidy in the morning, make a reservation booklet that has all of the reservation details you can possibly think of (including who you spoke with when making the reservation), preprogram the navigational points in the vehicle's GPS for each stop. Oh, and take extra towels. South Florida hotel staff gets irritated at extra towel requests and will set the alarm clock in the vacant room next door for 3am. ;-). Buy plastic laundry baskets for the crew to have on the beach so you can throw all your wet gear and equipment in when you get to the beach each day and you can haul it to the hotel room yourself. Set that basket in the shower and rinse the gear out while you shower yourself - that helps to keep the stench of briney death to a minimum as the weeks go on. Have a set routine for changing batteries, charging, and programming equipment / devices before going to bed each night. Routines cut down on the morning pre-start chaos and you discover things in time for everyone to react calmly.

Also think hard about how you split up the rooms if you are getting multiple at each stop. You might want to split up sailors and ground crew so one sailor one ground crew per room - everyone is teamed up together during the day and a short little change of personality for the rooms might be a good change of pace to help maintain the push through the two weeks. Additionally, the shower schedules work out better that way - the sailors can both hit the showers in the different rooms at the same time which usually does not coincide with the shower schedule of the ground crew (and, btw, get ground crew that does shower regularly ;-).

A spare boat like Mike has done is a luxury and it certainly relieves a lot of stress about spares. I've borrowed masts and other boat parts in the past with a promise to replace them if they get used and anything happens to them and haul all along the way. remember to have a plan for storing a mast on an empty trailer if carrying a spare mast - planning ahead also reduces stress on ground crew. I carried a pre-made 2x4 arrangement that clamped to the trailer with U-bolts and went together with carriage bolts that was assembled after the boat was unloaded. We saved the hardware and discarded the rest when packing for home. Regarding spares - Mischa demonstrated a lesson to all of us one morning with a really sketchy beach start (big waves, light wind). He put an entire rudder system on the beach behind the boat at the start line - cross bar and all - fully assembled, and ready to clip onto the boat in the event of a rudder problem. I think they used it (or loaned it to someone else that found themselves suddenly in need). That's a whole lot faster than running back to the trailer to find and replace individual pieces-parts like we all used to do.

I tried an RV once early in my Tybee campaigns (prior to the Frank and Jake era) and it was a humongous pain on the ground crew. Along with some incompatible personalities and a lack of communication in some key areas about who was staying where, it led to just enough additional stress that the crew got so mad at each other and they all left the night of the finish at Tybee. I woke up that morning to discover they left in my RV AND my truck leaving me and my wife in Tybee with no vehicle and a boat on the beach. At least they left my trailer there, lol. I gave up on the idea of RV's after that ;-). My take away from that experience is to make sure the accommodation plans are known early and upfront and handle the communication of those details personally.

Lastly - don't.forget.the.paddle. I was honored to meet Gaulden Reed on the beach one morning in Daytona - a day after we forgot a paddle and struggled to get through the surf for an eternity during a start. Gaulden, navigating a walker around the boats on the beach, shook my hand and said how he enjoyed following our team. We chatted for a bit and just before walking away said "oh, and be sure to take a paddle today". :-).

Great stuff so far!

The issue of ground crew is easily glossed over when considering a multi-day race but is so very important.

It has to be people who are willing to spend the time without the glory/fun of racing. For the Worrell this will be a 15+ day in a row commitment.

I believe every team needs at least two on the ground. In the shorter 4-5 day races some get away with one good ground crew but then every day that person has to beg for help moving the boat.

The sailors can plan to help with the ground crew work all they want, but at the end of a tough leg after a bunch of tough days in a row it won't always happen.

sounds like a $10,000 race to enter .
is there a prize award available for the top winners?

It doesn’t have to be 16 nights for a 10 day Race,the rooms are not 2-3 hundred per night , and you should be looking for local sponsors now.
This race is awesome, but not for the faint of heart,
Choose your boat, and start preparing.

Team Tommy Bahama
2002 Worrell 1000 Campaign
Second Year Team Budget

Early Entry Fee $1,000.00
Required Insurance (Liability, Boat Insurance, and Damage Deposits) $1,300.00
New Sails and Miscellaneous Parts $4,500.00
Additional Parts for Boat $1,000.00
Graphics on primary sails (Main, Jib, and Spinnaker) $3,250.00
Graphics for application to hulls, and support vehicles $400.00
Daily Professional Marine Meteorologist Forecasting for Entire Race $600.00
Competitor’s Race Apparel (Dry Suits, Life Jackets, Gloves, etc.) $2,000.00
Lodging (3 Rooms/Night @ $125 x 15 Nights) $5,625.00
Communications* $500.00
Per Diem (Meals, Incidentals) $4,050.00
Fuel (Motorhome and Support Vehicle) $1,750.00
Tolls and Ferry Fees (Motorhome, Support Vehicle and Trailer) $200.00
TOTAL $26,175.00
* Communication costs are based upon team members using personal cellular programs – not the purchase of new equipment.

as a former team manager, i've been on a shoestring budget with two sailors, few spares, peanut butter, no other ground crew but me, and a motorhome we shared to bunk; and i've been on a very well-funded team with a ground crew that swelled to 11 at one point, a spare boat, and a sponsor that rightfully expected significant fulfillment and visibility.

jake is right - the days of taking a motorhome along are (sadly) over. the hotels for 2019 are specifically precluding them in some cases, and even where parking has been negotiated, the host hotel is not allowing anyone to sleep in them. we're getting discounted rates, and the hotels expect the event participants to use them.

Maybe shave a day off, I thought I was being conservative with 16 because the first race schedule I saw some time ago included a "lay day" non-racing day, half way through. So it would have been 14 days for 13 legs.

The race starts on Monday so I'd assume teams would get to Fort Lauderdale at least the Saturday before.

Regardless of the cost, people who truly want to form a team and do a challenge race like this will find a way. The Race to Alaska is extremely successful with large numbers of competitors even though it involves a crazy amount of travel and logistics for most people.

Thank you for the Tommy Bahama budget, that is very helpful. I would add 50% to that for 2018 price hikes over 2002 numbers. Hopefully the organizers are also aware that a new F20C is a $40k purchase (vs. the peak price of a Nacra 20 at sub $20k, or a new F18 at $25k). That's a lot of money for a platform that isn't particularly race-able after the Worrell and will therefore take a large price cut when you go to sell. Then there is the issue of spare parts, not that many floating around and all come with equally steep replacement costs! Frankly this is the reason I'm on the fence about doing the race, I could take my F18 but no sponsor wants to support a second tear also-ran team...

When I first saw this post I was going to throw out $100K guesstimate to do it right... this is if you wanted to do it with a new F20C "with all the fixings...." guess I was not too far off..

But as Damon noted... those that really want to do this race will find a way to make it happen...

don't forget to look at the details - for example, the communications budget covered roaming expenses. that's not an issue in today's cellular plans.

TB was one of the best-funded teams i'd ever seen. i know that the majority of teams had budgets that were half of TB's or less. the same will be true in 2019. i was hoping to be asked to manage a team, and i would have done the same thing i've done in the past - set a budget based on the team, then seek sponsorships tailored to that team and the budget. "in kind" sponsorships can make a tremendous difference - if you have a relationship with a loft (as an example), the line items for sails and graphics is reduced significantly. that's how you get to the start line.

cat sailors generally fall down (in my experience) when it comes to fulfillment. are you really seeking a sponsor, or are you asking for charity? a sponsor will respond differently if you have a proposal that includes what YOU will do for THEM in return for their support. this is where we disagree, sam - also-ran? this race will touch every resort town from south florida to virginia. although the hotel checkpoints haven't been announced, i can say that these aren't out-of-the-way places. consider, too, the dates - take a look at the calendars for the beach towns on the days we're ashore, and you'll see there are some big events that coincide with the fleet's arrival. that means even more eyeballs. i recommend a team consider making the exposure their selling point, and not "i will win."

finally, my close friends know i love betting on these events - right here on this forum you can still find my "pick your horse" threads. now that i'm involved with the administration of the 2019 event, clearly i won't be doing that again BUT (again for sam), i would not be betting against the robust, durable F18 in capable hands.

Hey John,

This is a longer discussion that we should probably have offline.

For example, having a sail loft provide in-kind support is pretty silly when you can't use sails besides those supplied by the manufacturer in a SMOD class.

As to my also-ran statement, there is a large speed delta between a F20c and F18. Exposure comes to those teams that make it to the beach first-doesn't matter if you are trying to win, if you show up an hour after the first 3-4 boats finish you aren't getting the on-beach exposure of the lead teams.

Beyond that, before last year I would have made the same bet as you John, that on some days the F18's would be at the beach first while the F20c's were still struggling to stay upright in the conditions, but that's kind of been proven to not be the case. The other big change there is the F20c has been seriously beefed up to take the foiling loads of the FCS package (same hulls, beams, trunks, masts between the two) so is pretty strong and I suspect one will win the event on raw time. If handicap is at play, that's a different ball of wax-hard to beat a well sailed F18 on handicap.

not to argue, but what i saw at the event doesn't match your view - my own team got plenty of coverage without being first to the beach. in fact, cat in the hat got a ton of coverage during the tybee events - those guys were an interesting story and got attention. honest, getting your sponsor some exposure isn't just about finish position - it isn't even *mostly* about finish position. every sponsor is different. figure out what they want and there's a way to deliver. it takes some work and you have to have the right mindset.

regarding budget, a relationship with a loft isn't just about purchasing sails - TB had a very substantial budget for graphics, and nigel and alex did an incredible job designing a beautiful boat that stood out; jib, main, kite and vinyl for the hulls. they even had some nice touches on the boards and rudders. if you have an arrangement with someone to trade recognition for that kind of work, your budget is better off. and that's just one example.

happy to talk offline any time.

Hey John,

Certainly hear ya on sponsorship recognition and in-kind donations. The key is finding a sponsor whose target market aligns with the race, not easy to do in 2018 but possible.

I looked at some finish times for the F18 vs. F20c in the past 2 Florida 300's and it worked out that the best sailed F18 was on average 45 minutes behind the best sailed F20c per leg. That's not a ton of time and I'm starting to think getting the F18 north of Cape Fear has a little higher probability than the F20c. Flip side to that is getting the F20c around Hatteras is probably a better bet than the F18. I raced an Infusion vs. two Inter 20's including a Worrell vet last weekend in 20-25 kts and really nasty sea state, the I20 was just the better boat in the shorter chop.

-Sam

Hopefully, Hurricane Florence won't take out any of the checkpoints. Wrightsville Beach was essentially ground zero on the worst side of the eye. Both Surfside Beach, SC and Atlantic Beach, NC could possibly be affected too. Got really lucky it dropped to a category 2 on approach.

I had the same thought Craig. I reached out to a friend whose family home is 15 miles north of Wrightsville Beach on the IC; they are safe and sound far inland but have not yet made it back to Wilmington and from what I understand it could be another few weeks before its even possible to drive back into town.

Are we talking about the original Inter/NACRA 20"? If so, I have to disagree, well partially... the rear beam in the the shorter chop was like a speed brake... No matter how far forward we went, that rear/transom sat pretty low and it allowed for the rear beam to hit the chop head on... Even heard of a few cases where this was the cause a rear beam failure.... That is the only criticism I have on that boat..

Or maybe, the shot chop in the Atlantic is little different in the Pacific... our chop out here is organic and free range..

Ventucky,

Yep, original Nacra 20. I owned one for a time and have a Tybee 500 under my belt on the boat so am aware of the rear beam slap. It would be a good mod to our fleet to race the rear beam a few inches, but honestly it wasn't usually that bad if you kept one hull out of the water. In the race I'm talking about we were on the Chesapeake Bay in some of the nastiest sea state I've been in; the waves were spaced about 8-10' apart. This was driven by 3 kts of current plus wind driven through a fairly narrow channel (4-5 minutes to gybe across at 17kts of ground speed under jib+main). We had rear beam slap on the Infusion a few times as well even with the extra stern volume and raised rear beam. In that particular set of circumstances the extra 2' of hull length was noticeably faster. Usually this isn't a problem for the 20's as the bay is generally lighter air and flat which suits this design quite nicely.

Of the F18's I've sailed the Scorpion and Falcon are the least likely to have this issue. The Cirrus probably fits that category as well; all are relatively high volume designs and the Scorpion has hulls 4" taller than the Infusion PLUS an elevated rear beam. Very comfortable and fast in breeze.

My experience is generally speaking the Atlantic doesn't have a lot of what I call short chop, mostly rollers. There are places this isn't true-Jacksonville at the St. John's River inlet, Cape Fear, Hatteras, Hyannis, St. Barths, approximately 1400nm east of Newport, RI in a deep low with sustained 40 and gusts to 50. In these spots you have chop/breakers on top of rollers and it can get nasty.

I'm sure even the free range organic Pacific can deliver similar in some spots..

I'm going to agree with Sam here.... The kick from the rear beam slap worries me less than having a 2' shorter boat in chop. I've been in short steep waves on both platforms and I'd pick the I-20 over most F-18's all day. That said however, the I-20 design is long in the tooth and with F-18 development, isn't as fast comparatively as it used to be. For reference, SCHRS only rates the I-20 0.03 faster than the F-18. If given the choice, I'd probably pick the boats Sam mentioned as well as the Edge over the I-20 though; big full rounded bows instead of the wide flat deck.

Part of the reason the beam slap is bad on the I-20 is the trampoline. I've seen a couple of boats that had a "trap door" flap cut in the tramp to let water through when a wave hit.

Like I said, that was my only complaint on the boat... Other that that, it was a Cadillac ride if there ever was one...

Probably why the class did so well with Mission Bay in San Diego...

Yep the I20 is a hard boat to beat in predominantly light air venues. We've been sailing a mixed fleet of F18's/I20's and the real kicker is the heavier teams on the F18 (over 370lbs) are just generally not competitive with the 20's, which isn't fun after a while .

We actually use the SCHRS rating for the Nacra 20 One Design which is also incorrect (the correct value is 0.957, there is an error with the jib size in the SCHRS table). Anyway this computes to 2m41s an hour, which isn't trivial given that in many conditions a top F18 team can beat a top Nacra 20 team.

Anyway the N20 modified with a lifted rear beam and updated sail plan is still a real weapon. They are long in the tooth though and the F20c is a very nice replacement.

I suffered a really mysterious rear beam slap on a new-to-me I20 (my third). I couldn't believe I was struggling with the rear beam slapping the chop on a lake. I finally figured out I had left both drain plugs out when Karl went to retrieve our (now floating) sandwiches from the hull.

We need to get a sponsor or two or there's no way we're going to make it. Also, the $2,000 entry fee is too damn much.
As far as the Carbon 20 against the F18's go...both have their conditions that they like best but the Carbon 20 is simply a monster that loves everything. We've found when the F18's are tight spin reaching (where the N20 could never hang), we still had faster speed with main and jib. A huge part of that is being that we are semi foiling and can carry the apparent wind longer when we drive off. Heavier on the tiller but it handles the big stuff better than the N20 did (just my opinion after 14 GT300's and 2 Tybee 500's). The beam on it is so high off the water, I think we only slapped it less than 5 times already. And it takes a LOT to do it. The achillies heel has been rudder arms and spin poles. The carbon spin pole should fix that. We were doing 26 knots jib reaching and punched the back of a wave due to my poor driving and the pole collapsed like an empty beer can with a horse stepping on it. With that, we had to lower the jib and stow it on the trampoline with the spinnaker and run uni rigged for the next 50 miles. It dropped our speed back to 17 knots.

I raced in and finished 4 Worrell 1000 s and ground crewed for one. My extremely low budget average cost, trying to make chicken salad from chicken ****, was about $7,000 not counting boat parts. There was a Sports Illustrated article that contrasted our scrape it together team with a/the top sponsor team. I usually picked up a new suit of sails each race as well so that would bump it to $10k. This was 1999-2002. 1998 I ground crewed out of an RV with 5 of us staying in it and it SUCKED, the only good thing about it was John McLaughlin, who I endured it for. The other racer was one of the biggest **** of miseries to ever draw a breath and you would not want to be trapped in an RV with him.
Parts costs will vary greatly on the intenseness of the weather and the weak points of the boats, and don't kid yourself there WILL be weak points, likely lots of them for untested platforms. Complete rudder systems w/ spare castings, spare spin pole, and the various blocks, shackles, and screws are a must.
My advice, don't scrimp unless that is the only way to do the race for you. The more prepared you are (think more $$$ you spend) the more enjoyment you will get out of the race.

Todd Hart
Team Cat Fever