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What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? #288868
08/08/18 02:42 PM
08/08/18 02:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
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Memphis, Tennessee
Damon Linkous Offline OP

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I know we have folks on here who have actually done some Worrell's so I'm wondering if anyone has a budget they could share?

As catamaran races go, the east coast distance races are some of the more expensive due to the fact that you are stopping in a new beach resort area every night. So hotels are expensive since you need to be right on the beach.

For the Worrell you'd need at least one hotel room per night for 16 nights, but probably two because of the need for ground crew.

RV's would save cash but aren't practical for everyone due to the lack of parking at most stops, hard enough to find a place for the trailers the ground crew are pulling.

So besides the entry fee (not nothing) and 32 nights in a hotel at $200-$300 per night what are the other major expenses?

Ideas for shaving down the budget?

The original bandit race, everyone leave Fort Lauderdale and let us know when you get to the bar at Virginia Beach, sleep on the beach when you have to, no support... was a lot cheaper!

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288869
08/09/18 09:28 AM
08/09/18 09:28 AM
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Food - budget $35/person/day at a minimum and you'll still be eating a lot of cereal and sandwiches.

Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288870
08/09/18 02:35 PM
08/09/18 02:35 PM
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Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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And don’t forget about all the spare parts; mast, rudders, dagger boards, sails, maybe a hull oe two. Those surf launching an landings can bust a lot of stuff when it’s blowing hard on shore.

Last edited by Timbo; 08/09/18 02:36 PM.

Blade F16
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Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Timbo] #288871
08/09/18 04:23 PM
08/09/18 04:23 PM
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mikekrantz Offline
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Originally Posted by Timbo
And don’t forget about all the spare parts; mast, rudders, dagger boards, sails, maybe a hull oe two. Those surf launching an landings can bust a lot of stuff when it’s blowing hard on shore.


Instead of stocking up on rudders, daggerboards, masts, sails, and a gazillion small parts that can break. We typically bought a complete used boat, carried it as a spare, and sold it after the event...

Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288872
08/10/18 08:58 AM
08/10/18 08:58 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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For the Tybee campaigns, we typically covered all expenses for the ground crew and had at least two Hotel rooms at each stop. One year I think we actually ran three rooms once when we had a bigger crew and could afford the privacy. I figure those averaged about $130/night per room thanks to some of the deals the race management cut with the hotels (but that was some time ago). Some were up to $180/night, some at $80/night, most around $110-$120. Food at $35/day is probably a minimum. A little privacy goes a long way toward low stress. Ground crewing sounds like a relaxing jog up the coast but it is absolutely hard stressful work. Sailors need to do all they can do to help ease that work load - pack your own stuff up neat and tidy in the morning, make a reservation booklet that has all of the reservation details you can possibly think of (including who you spoke with when making the reservation), preprogram the navigational points in the vehicle's GPS for each stop. Oh, and take extra towels. South Florida hotel staff gets irritated at extra towel requests and will set the alarm clock in the vacant room next door for 3am. ;-). Buy plastic laundry baskets for the crew to have on the beach so you can throw all your wet gear and equipment in when you get to the beach each day and you can haul it to the hotel room yourself. Set that basket in the shower and rinse the gear out while you shower yourself - that helps to keep the stench of briney death to a minimum as the weeks go on. Have a set routine for changing batteries, charging, and programming equipment / devices before going to bed each night. Routines cut down on the morning pre-start chaos and you discover things in time for everyone to react calmly.

Also think hard about how you split up the rooms if you are getting multiple at each stop. You might want to split up sailors and ground crew so one sailor one ground crew per room - everyone is teamed up together during the day and a short little change of personality for the rooms might be a good change of pace to help maintain the push through the two weeks. Additionally, the shower schedules work out better that way - the sailors can both hit the showers in the different rooms at the same time which usually does not coincide with the shower schedule of the ground crew (and, btw, get ground crew that does shower regularly ;-).

A spare boat like Mike has done is a luxury and it certainly relieves a lot of stress about spares. I've borrowed masts and other boat parts in the past with a promise to replace them if they get used and anything happens to them and haul all along the way. remember to have a plan for storing a mast on an empty trailer if carrying a spare mast - planning ahead also reduces stress on ground crew. I carried a pre-made 2x4 arrangement that clamped to the trailer with U-bolts and went together with carriage bolts that was assembled after the boat was unloaded. We saved the hardware and discarded the rest when packing for home. Regarding spares - Mischa demonstrated a lesson to all of us one morning with a really sketchy beach start (big waves, light wind). He put an entire rudder system on the beach behind the boat at the start line - cross bar and all - fully assembled, and ready to clip onto the boat in the event of a rudder problem. I think they used it (or loaned it to someone else that found themselves suddenly in need). That's a whole lot faster than running back to the trailer to find and replace individual pieces-parts like we all used to do.

I tried an RV once early in my Tybee campaigns (prior to the Frank and Jake era) and it was a humongous pain on the ground crew. Along with some incompatible personalities and a lack of communication in some key areas about who was staying where, it led to just enough additional stress that the crew got so mad at each other and they all left the night of the finish at Tybee. I woke up that morning to discover they left in my RV AND my truck leaving me and my wife in Tybee with no vehicle and a boat on the beach. At least they left my trailer there, lol. I gave up on the idea of RV's after that ;-). My take away from that experience is to make sure the accommodation plans are known early and upfront and handle the communication of those details personally.

Lastly - don't.forget.the.paddle. I was honored to meet Gaulden Reed on the beach one morning in Daytona - a day after we forgot a paddle and struggled to get through the surf for an eternity during a start. Gaulden, navigating a walker around the boats on the beach, shook my hand and said how he enjoyed following our team. We chatted for a bit and just before walking away said "oh, and be sure to take a paddle today". :-).


Jake Kohl
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288873
08/10/18 10:22 AM
08/10/18 10:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 279
Memphis, Tennessee
Damon Linkous Offline OP

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Great stuff so far!

The issue of ground crew is easily glossed over when considering a multi-day race but is so very important.

It has to be people who are willing to spend the time without the glory/fun of racing. For the Worrell this will be a 15+ day in a row commitment.

I believe every team needs at least two on the ground. In the shorter 4-5 day races some get away with one good ground crew but then every day that person has to beg for help moving the boat.

The sailors can plan to help with the ground crew work all they want, but at the end of a tough leg after a bunch of tough days in a row it won't always happen.

Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288874
08/10/18 02:47 PM
08/10/18 02:47 PM
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Mn3Again Offline
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sounds like a $10,000 race to enter .
is there a prize award available for the top winners?


Mn3
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288875
08/10/18 06:44 PM
08/10/18 06:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 77
Florida Keys
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I W S Dennis Offline
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It doesn’t have to be 16 nights for a 10 day Race,the rooms are not 2-3 hundred per night , and you should be looking for local sponsors now.
This race is awesome, but not for the faint of heart,
Choose your boat, and start preparing.

Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288876
08/11/18 12:39 PM
08/11/18 12:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,289
Long Beach, California
John Williams Online content
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John Williams  Online Content
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Team Tommy Bahama
2002 Worrell 1000 Campaign
Second Year Team Budget

Early Entry Fee $1,000.00
Required Insurance (Liability, Boat Insurance, and Damage Deposits) $1,300.00
New Sails and Miscellaneous Parts $4,500.00
Additional Parts for Boat $1,000.00
Graphics on primary sails (Main, Jib, and Spinnaker) $3,250.00
Graphics for application to hulls, and support vehicles $400.00
Daily Professional Marine Meteorologist Forecasting for Entire Race $600.00
Competitor’s Race Apparel (Dry Suits, Life Jackets, Gloves, etc.) $2,000.00
Lodging (3 Rooms/Night @ $125 x 15 Nights) $5,625.00
Communications* $500.00
Per Diem (Meals, Incidentals) $4,050.00
Fuel (Motorhome and Support Vehicle) $1,750.00
Tolls and Ferry Fees (Motorhome, Support Vehicle and Trailer) $200.00
TOTAL $26,175.00
* Communication costs are based upon team members using personal cellular programs – not the purchase of new equipment.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288877
08/11/18 12:47 PM
08/11/18 12:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,289
Long Beach, California
John Williams Online content
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John Williams  Online Content
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as a former team manager, i've been on a shoestring budget with two sailors, few spares, peanut butter, no other ground crew but me, and a motorhome we shared to bunk; and i've been on a very well-funded team with a ground crew that swelled to 11 at one point, a spare boat, and a sponsor that rightfully expected significant fulfillment and visibility.

jake is right - the days of taking a motorhome along are (sadly) over. the hotels for 2019 are specifically precluding them in some cases, and even where parking has been negotiated, the host hotel is not allowing anyone to sleep in them. we're getting discounted rates, and the hotels expect the event participants to use them.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: I W S Dennis] #288879
08/13/18 10:45 AM
08/13/18 10:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 279
Memphis, Tennessee
Damon Linkous Offline OP

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Damon Linkous  Offline OP

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Originally Posted by I W S Dennis
It doesn’t have to be 16 nights for a 10 day Race,the rooms are not 2-3 hundred per night , and you should be looking for local sponsors now.
This race is awesome, but not for the faint of heart,
Choose your boat, and start preparing.

Maybe shave a day off, I thought I was being conservative with 16 because the first race schedule I saw some time ago included a "lay day" non-racing day, half way through. So it would have been 14 days for 13 legs.

The race starts on Monday so I'd assume teams would get to Fort Lauderdale at least the Saturday before.

Regardless of the cost, people who truly want to form a team and do a challenge race like this will find a way. The Race to Alaska is extremely successful with large numbers of competitors even though it involves a crazy amount of travel and logistics for most people.

Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288880
08/17/18 07:26 AM
08/17/18 07:26 AM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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Thank you for the Tommy Bahama budget, that is very helpful. I would add 50% to that for 2018 price hikes over 2002 numbers. Hopefully the organizers are also aware that a new F20C is a $40k purchase (vs. the peak price of a Nacra 20 at sub $20k, or a new F18 at $25k). That's a lot of money for a platform that isn't particularly race-able after the Worrell and will therefore take a large price cut when you go to sell. Then there is the issue of spare parts, not that many floating around and all come with equally steep replacement costs! Frankly this is the reason I'm on the fence about doing the race, I could take my F18 but no sponsor wants to support a second tear also-ran team...


Scorpion F18
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: samc99us] #288882
08/17/18 12:00 PM
08/17/18 12:00 PM
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by samc99us
Thank you for the Tommy Bahama budget, that is very helpful. I would add 50% to that for 2018 price hikes over 2002 numbers. Hopefully the organizers are also aware that a new F20C is a $40k purchase (vs. the peak price of a Nacra 20 at sub $20k, or a new F18 at $25k). That's a lot of money for a platform that isn't particularly race-able after the Worrell and will therefore take a large price cut when you go to sell. Then there is the issue of spare parts, not that many floating around and all come with equally steep replacement costs! Frankly this is the reason I'm on the fence about doing the race, I could take my F18 but no sponsor wants to support a second tear also-ran team...


When I first saw this post I was going to throw out $100K guesstimate to do it right... this is if you wanted to do it with a new F20C "with all the fixings...." guess I was not too far off..

But as Damon noted... those that really want to do this race will find a way to make it happen...

Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288883
08/18/18 11:06 AM
08/18/18 11:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,289
Long Beach, California
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don't forget to look at the details - for example, the communications budget covered roaming expenses. that's not an issue in today's cellular plans.

TB was one of the best-funded teams i'd ever seen. i know that the majority of teams had budgets that were half of TB's or less. the same will be true in 2019. i was hoping to be asked to manage a team, and i would have done the same thing i've done in the past - set a budget based on the team, then seek sponsorships tailored to that team and the budget. "in kind" sponsorships can make a tremendous difference - if you have a relationship with a loft (as an example), the line items for sails and graphics is reduced significantly. that's how you get to the start line.

cat sailors generally fall down (in my experience) when it comes to fulfillment. are you really seeking a sponsor, or are you asking for charity? a sponsor will respond differently if you have a proposal that includes what YOU will do for THEM in return for their support. this is where we disagree, sam - also-ran? this race will touch every resort town from south florida to virginia. although the hotel checkpoints haven't been announced, i can say that these aren't out-of-the-way places. consider, too, the dates - take a look at the calendars for the beach towns on the days we're ashore, and you'll see there are some big events that coincide with the fleet's arrival. that means even more eyeballs. i recommend a team consider making the exposure their selling point, and not "i will win."

finally, my close friends know i love betting on these events - right here on this forum you can still find my "pick your horse" threads. now that i'm involved with the administration of the 2019 event, clearly i won't be doing that again BUT (again for sam), i would not be betting against the robust, durable F18 in capable hands.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288884
08/19/18 08:48 AM
08/19/18 08:48 AM
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samc99us Offline
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Hey John,

This is a longer discussion that we should probably have offline.

For example, having a sail loft provide in-kind support is pretty silly when you can't use sails besides those supplied by the manufacturer in a SMOD class.

As to my also-ran statement, there is a large speed delta between a F20c and F18. Exposure comes to those teams that make it to the beach first-doesn't matter if you are trying to win, if you show up an hour after the first 3-4 boats finish you aren't getting the on-beach exposure of the lead teams.

Beyond that, before last year I would have made the same bet as you John, that on some days the F18's would be at the beach first while the F20c's were still struggling to stay upright in the conditions, but that's kind of been proven to not be the case. The other big change there is the F20c has been seriously beefed up to take the foiling loads of the FCS package (same hulls, beams, trunks, masts between the two) so is pretty strong and I suspect one will win the event on raw time. If handicap is at play, that's a different ball of wax-hard to beat a well sailed F18 on handicap.


Scorpion F18
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288885
08/19/18 11:54 AM
08/19/18 11:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,289
Long Beach, California
John Williams Online content
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not to argue, but what i saw at the event doesn't match your view - my own team got plenty of coverage without being first to the beach. in fact, cat in the hat got a ton of coverage during the tybee events - those guys were an interesting story and got attention. honest, getting your sponsor some exposure isn't just about finish position - it isn't even *mostly* about finish position. every sponsor is different. figure out what they want and there's a way to deliver. it takes some work and you have to have the right mindset.

regarding budget, a relationship with a loft isn't just about purchasing sails - TB had a very substantial budget for graphics, and nigel and alex did an incredible job designing a beautiful boat that stood out; jib, main, kite and vinyl for the hulls. they even had some nice touches on the boards and rudders. if you have an arrangement with someone to trade recognition for that kind of work, your budget is better off. and that's just one example.

happy to talk offline any time.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288900
09/14/18 02:12 PM
09/14/18 02:12 PM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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Hey John,

Certainly hear ya on sponsorship recognition and in-kind donations. The key is finding a sponsor whose target market aligns with the race, not easy to do in 2018 but possible.

I looked at some finish times for the F18 vs. F20c in the past 2 Florida 300's and it worked out that the best sailed F18 was on average 45 minutes behind the best sailed F20c per leg. That's not a ton of time and I'm starting to think getting the F18 north of Cape Fear has a little higher probability than the F20c. Flip side to that is getting the F20c around Hatteras is probably a better bet than the F18. I raced an Infusion vs. two Inter 20's including a Worrell vet last weekend in 20-25 kts and really nasty sea state, the I20 was just the better boat in the shorter chop.

-Sam


Scorpion F18
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288901
09/14/18 04:56 PM
09/14/18 04:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,057
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
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cyberspeed  Offline
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Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Hopefully, Hurricane Florence won't take out any of the checkpoints. Wrightsville Beach was essentially ground zero on the worst side of the eye. Both Surfside Beach, SC and Atlantic Beach, NC could possibly be affected too. Got really lucky it dropped to a category 2 on approach.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: Damon Linkous] #288908
09/18/18 07:07 AM
09/18/18 07:07 AM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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I had the same thought Craig. I reached out to a friend whose family home is 15 miles north of Wrightsville Beach on the IC; they are safe and sound far inland but have not yet made it back to Wilmington and from what I understand it could be another few weeks before its even possible to drive back into town.


Scorpion F18
Re: What would it cost to do a Worrell 1000? [Re: samc99us] #288910
09/19/18 05:51 PM
09/19/18 05:51 PM
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by samc99us
the I20 was just the better boat in the shorter chop.

-Sam


Are we talking about the original Inter/NACRA 20"? If so, I have to disagree, well partially... the rear beam in the the shorter chop was like a speed brake... No matter how far forward we went, that rear/transom sat pretty low and it allowed for the rear beam to hit the chop head on... Even heard of a few cases where this was the cause a rear beam failure.... That is the only criticism I have on that boat..

Or maybe, the shot chop in the Atlantic is little different in the Pacific... our chop out here is organic and free range.. cool

Last edited by Ventucky Red; 09/19/18 05:51 PM.
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