>G'day,
> You should do some fact checking on your info Rob,
>
My first line was "Outleaders (
www.kiteship.com) are different to board kites, they are launched from the boat not the beach and they do not have anywhere near the power zone." I am referring to Outleaders, not board kites. They are very different in design, use and capabilities. Sorry if this was not clear.
>> Mostly though, they are safe. All the lines lead to the deck, so there is no heeling or nosediving. Biggest worry is getting airborne, more a problem on a beach cat than a large cat.
> More people have gotten killed by going airborn under a kite than by flying an assymetric spinnaker. As a result power kiting and buggy kiting are banned on the Dutch beaches and waters now. They may only sail at certain reserved spots and after acquiring a license. For buggy's you'll now need an official (landyacht) pilot license and you must do an exame for that.
No one has been killed by an Outleader, and no one is likely to be. Plenty of people have been injured by breaking spinnaker poles, and there have been untold injuries caused by capsizing and nosediving caused by assymetrics. Neither of these happens with an Outleader.
> 420 sqm kite on a 20m/66' skiff 20-25 sq.mtr is enough to fly 75-90 kg human beings (paragliders) so 420 sq. mtr. is enough to fly 1500 kg. How much did that 20 mtr skiff weight ? So what do you mean exactly by "more a problem on a beach cat than a large cat."
The 20 mtr skiff weighs 7 tonnes. Plus it carries 3 tonnes of water ballast when flying the assymetric (390 sqm) in over 15 knots apparent. With the kite, the water is not required. See
http://www.kiteship.com/ for pictures of the kite and boat.
I meant that getting airborne is more likely to be a problem on a beach cat than a big cat. Fly a big enough Outleader, in strong enough winds, you will leave the water. Not a big deal, because as the water foils (centrebopards, rudders) come out, the boat will go downwind, apparent will drop and you will come back down. With the ability to attach (by tweaking) the strings anywhere on the boat, the attitude of the boat is controlled. Attach them to the leeward hull and the boat will heel to windward. It will not capsize, it will not nosedive. It will just go faster and faster.
>> Conventional assy's have an aspect ratio of about 2:1
> Maybe on mono's but not on beach cats
> F18 => (8.25)^2/21 = 3.24 aspect ratio
> Tornado => (8.75)^2/24 = 3.19 aspect ratio
> F18HT => 9^2/20 = 4.05 aspect ratio
Maybe my post should have read _maximum_ aspect ratio. Your comments just reinforce my point, which was that an Outleader can be far, far bigger than an assymetric, on any size boat.
> Issues with kites :
>
> - Try sailing under bridges or power lines
No problem. Either fly the kite low, pull it in to close to the boat, or collapse it and let it stream until you are past, then reset it. None of these is a big deal.
> - Try bouy racing with them
Can't wait! The Outleader's advantages on the race track are many.
Blanket the opposition from 50m upwind.
Fly out from any wind shadow
Rapid hoist and recover
No capsize
No nosedive
Fully powered up through gybes, actaully accelerating as the main goes over
Safe
Much faster, much deeper
Always fly in clear air, unless you are sailing in a river with 30m high banks.
Much less effort, sheet trim is mostly easing. The sweet spot is much wider than for an assy.
No pole and bag sticking out the front to slow you down upwind
> - Try to stay in the water with them (not get fully airborne)
By the time you are airborne, you will be going much faster than you have ever been before.
> - Try sailing upwind with them
This is not possible. They are downwind sails. However, Peter Lynn has recently made big steps forward with upwind kites.
> - The sagging of the lines transmitting the force is a serious problem in upwind sailing or high speed sailing.
Far less so than the drag of poles, stays and masts. Outleaders can be flown hard against the forestay. They develop most power and stability on long lines, but they are not necessary. The sag on 50m of 3mm spectra is not huge, control is very simple. Most people pick it up within the first few minutes.
>
> With respect to efficiency of kites. Yes they are theoretically and practically more powerful than assies, however they (used to) have rather bad lift to drag ratios and are (were ?) far less attractive upwind dan normal sails. This ratio and the sagging of lines also impeded very high speeds. Landspeed records and water records (boats and surfboards) are once again set using conventional masted sails.
Not many records are set with assys, either. Outleaders are to help relatively inefficient (all beach cats and all offshore cats) boats go downwind. They would not be used or required on boats which have high enough apparent wind to always sail close hauled under working sail, such as your record breakers. They are not meant to be used upwind.
>
> Kites are quite interesting but they are far less new or promising than some make them out to be.
This used to be said about spinnakers, then assymetrics. You are right, they are _quite_ interesting. They are not that much different to a conventional spinnaker, but are a reasonable step forward in speed and safety. I suggest you have a go with one, you may be pleasantly surprised. Where abouts are you based? I will try to arrange a demo if you (or anyone else) is interested.
Outleaders do have down sides. The strings are a pain to store without a collector reel and the 3 mm strings can be hard on the hands. They cannot be used in breezes under 8 knots, although as we perfect the launching and flying techniques, this will change. At this stage, no development has been done on seriously rapid deployment and retrieving. Again, this will change as they are used more often.
Regards,
Rob
