Are we done with this F14 thing? There seems to be no further discussion so I guess everyone is happy with what little progress we've made.
I have a few questions, the answers to which, might make things a little clearer;
How many people do we now know of, who are now keen to get involved in any way at all, either as a competitor or in the administration? Should there be an F14 international council to get the process happening on an international level?
Is a Grand Prix style championship system the best way? Who would be prepared to travel nationally and/or internationally to maybe sanctioned leadup regattas and eventually a World F14 titles event? Should the larger countries run zone championships and eventually a state title event with successful participants going to the nationals and on to the F14 worlds? What sort of competition do you people want i.e. Olympic long course, short course, mixed?
Should these events be fully funded by the participants or is there any interest in organising local or national government funding? What about sponsorship? Do any 14ft sailors presently have sponsors? Do your class rules allow for sponsor advertising on sails at class titles?
What do the dads and mums think about having their sons and daughters competing on spectacular boats in spectacular zone, state, national and/or international competition?
Should a 14ftr be the next Olympic class catamaran to facilitate participation of younger sailors at Olympic level on a catamaran (the fastest, most spectacular 14ft sailboats in the world)?
If it could be done, (and I believe it can) would 14ft sailors like to have their sport given television coverage similar to other sports?
Should the F14ft rules provide for existing one design class cats to be competitive? What interest is there in a development class in 14ft catamarans?
How much money would you be prepared to pay for a very fast, top quality, hi tech, F14-14ft cat?
In short, is there sufficient interest to justify a serious effort to get this thing off the ground at international level?
Would it be possible for the people on this forum to canvas their local fleet sailors to get some understanding of the enthusiasm fort the concept of F14?
Would you like me to prepare a flyer outlining the possibilities and attributes of an F14 class for distribution among possible contenders or would printing this post be sufficient?
Over to you.
Bern Leslie

Now's the time to pull out the boats and make a showing. Here in the States, that'll happen next month at the Spring Fever Regatta - we have a host that is very obligingly scoring any boat that fits the box rule head to head. There will need to be more events that accept the F-14s and the turnout to merit the attention before I think we'll see a bunch of new ones out. International?? Olympics?? Let's finish building the cart before we hitch up the horse. I'm just hoping the people that own the boats already will get out and sail them.

For my part, I sailed in the open class of the Performance Midwinters here in Pensacola yesterday and today. I was greatful that the host provided open class sailing so that I could participate. I own the boat that fits me and it was great to feel welcome. My inexperience showed and I didn't string together the finishes I needed to place better than 15th overall in a fleet of 27 after six races, but I had a 5th and a 6th to show for my better moments along with a pair of DFLs for when I came unglued. I was the only "small" boat there - there were some I-17s, some F-18s, and everyone else was a 20-footer. One start for everyone, so I got crushed on the line, but had a nice, wide open course after all the big boys got out of my way, and top sailors as wind-indicators!

Only a month until Spring Fever - that'll be the first test for the F-14 class here. I don't expect more than 10 F-14s, most of which will be Mysteres, but I think it's a great beginning. There were a lot of folks this weekend that said my boat looked like fun as they all watched me heated up with the 'chute for down wind finishes - just have to get more than one or two to show up consistently like they do in Ohio to keep building the interest.

If it works in practice, more will show up. Wish we had your boat here, Bern. One more boat currently represents a significant percentage of the fleet!

Berny, yes,yes, and watch out for us next summer season
Darryl

John,
I see where your coming from.
Lets get the local thing going and see where it leads.
The way to go.
Do I have that right?

I know Bern and he has put more effort, time and money into the local thing than anyone that I've seen in my 25 years
of cat sailing and it just didn't take off.

(By the way Bern I liked the magazines you funded out of your own pocket.)

Now he is taking a different look at it and saying maybe we should do some planning and see if we can make it work on a grander scale and possibly that will help motivate people locally. The incentive to be a part of a bigger thing.

However this would require the collection of a number of individuals that think along the same lines and are prepared to put the effort in to make it happen.

Are they out there?

It does not only mean participation but dedication towards planning and organisation. Should there be enough people prepared to put in enough effort maybe a critical mass could be achieved at a Global level and this would help boost the local level of participation by feeling as though they are a part of a bigger thing.

That is my interprtation of what I've read.

I'd be most happy to be corrected if I've got it all wrong.


Regards,
Phill

Hi Phill -

Berny's frustration is evident and understandable, and maybe I'm not thinking big enough, but I still don't want to get too excited or spend gobs of time planning for a class that at present exists only as a concept. We've only just last month come to an agreement about what an F-14 even is - and truly, only a very few people were involved with that decision, so I wouldn't be surprised, in fact I EXPECT, that things will change a bit after we try this thing out next month. The idea is solid, and the number of Mystere's that Mike Fahle has been able to get into the country is testament to the fact that people are interested in a fun, race-rigged 14-footer. We just have to show up, keep showing up, and talk about it during, after, and between events.

Berny - your boat looks great and you've clearly invested a lot of yourself both in it and the sport. It's not my intention to slight your ideas or enthusiasm at all - I just don't want you to think we've set this thing aside. We set up the rules and picked an event to test them, grabbed a few interested parties with the wherewithal to put a 14-footer on the start line, and we'll just have to see what happens next. It's being talked about on the beach, so I know it's getting noticed - my limited experience has been that the initial follow-through is the biggest hurdle. Ask Carl about the Formula 20s - they seem to be in eternal debate and I haven't seen anyone show up at a race yet, despite his best efforts to get a good idea off the ground. I feel like we're at least one step ahead of that in a much shorter period of time...

Hi John & all

I,m enthusiastic about all Formula type and development classes ,--think this is from racing H 18s for a decade in the late 70s thru 80s ,-but also racing all types of cat designs and sailing craft of all sizes .

thanks for noticing

Will eventually have a F-14 ,-most likely as a fun experimental type craft that I can test new sail plan concepts on or experiment with angled foils and planning hull shapes, most likely by taking an existing production boat and trying different modifications to it , but this is one small area of interest , the F-14 can serve many .

Imagery is very important ,- Hobie cats were made popular in the 70s 80s by selling a new type of colorfull simple fast fun boats that you could purchase reasonabley and become part of a very positive, environmentally friendly, athletic oriented energetic image building sport ,that also offered a fun social scene and comradery with the shared experience and adventures of competitive sailing .
The F-14 needs to project this image ,-as all Formula classes should ,--note the H-16 Worlds ,--{positive imagery }--we live in a media driven world of it .

Each Formula or development L category class will create its own niche in the marketplace ,--the F-14s is FUN simiple size ,ideal for all ages.

I forsee a more systematic complete comprehensive design measurement based - Formula Class system of catamaran categorization and resulting classs groups -

Formula 14s --eventually needing a production class for 240 and above boats ,--and a ht classification within for 140 Lb cats ,---Berny and other ht lightweight designs will leave the heavier production boats , just as an A Class cat leaves a N uni , or 18 ht is faster than a F-18 at 100 Lbs heavier boat weight .
Anyway -there is a good F-16 hp lightweight class --it needs a complimentary production 16 non spin class .
There is the ht F-18s --and the F-18 ,--it needs a sub category F-18 non spin class .
We have the A Class developmental class for singlehanders ,-The F-14 and F-16 have single handed option as well . There should be a production weight SH class , and a spin SH class all in 17 18 ft range .
There will remain brand class groups and a rating system is needed ,-but it should serve the intent of large Formula type race groups that include all brand types based NOT on brand but basic L B W SA --design measurement -race groups in each Length category . ISAF rating achieves this and provides the basic language and definitions ,plus consistent means and proceedures for boat and sail measurements --rated sail area -rated weight -etc.
This forms the basis of Formula concepts ,--
something we have had backwards in NA USING A YARDSTICK AVERAGE SKIPPERS TIME RATING SYSTEM THAT IS ALMOST TOTALLY RELIANT ON BRAND , brand rules only ,-brand definition ,-brand classes , and is subserviant to them ,and reinforces them .
ISAF rating accepts both but recognizes that class racing is the ideal form of racing ,--Formula groups being the ideal form of class racing that can comprehensively include all within a broader expanded Formula classification structure for racing .

An added category for larger cats , and the C Class for the very expensive .
Also I,d like to see one other open development class again ,--a return of the 18sq or a more open spin 20 development class .

Formula 20 has been tough ,--knew it would be ,and take the longest to establish going in to it .
The very popular W-1000 - Inter 20 cat ,-was not built to iF-20 rules like the h-fOX is ,-it instead is 30 Lbs lighter and has a 15 sq ft larger main, it also has a CF mast .---brand only edicts -interests ,-poor market strategies ,etc etc ,--the politics of it all is difficult .
Pete is working up a new NA Formula 20 WEBSITE ,and plan to stick with it and the broader Formula concept for as long as it takes to get established ,

We --the catamaran sailors ,--all seem to be inadvertantly and very segmentedly by individual interest in size range or type, headed in this Formula race group direction .

If we all got together a little better with more constructive coordination , recognized the direction , outlined the expanded Formula intent, we couold promote all types brands sizes etc to the benifit of all with all the events and international aspects Berny noted .

A rising tide floats all boats ,

I hope to race in all of em F-14s thru 20s and beyond .

Though right now I can,t find a crew or gr crew for the Tybee 500-Atlantic 1000 --

last years efforts w Gale
http://www.galebrowning.com/tybeenews.html

As noted each Length has its own niche in the marketplace ,--this race would be a tough one for the F-14s

my 8th Atlantic race --whew
I, would like to race it on a F-20 version cat -
and see the Atlantic races go Formula in future years ,-
that includes all Lengths in different times starts off the beach .

The TransAtlantic effort by the NL teams is fasinating as well , though extremely dangerous -
take care
Carl

Yes that's exactly what I was getting at Phil. Aim high and the worst you might do is hit the bottom outer circle. Aim low and you might miss the target completely.
I know it's early days and I know I'm somewhat enthused but I'm always passionate about what I believe in and I think that if you are going to do something you might as well do it right and go the full Monty. Anyway, America has the numbers so it'll be interesting to see if this little mob down here in Oz can maybe steal the initiative. We have potentially three manufactures already. Could be real interesting.
Bern

Phil- I know you are very busy with the Blade F16, but would there be any way I could get a set of plans to turn into an F14 Blade by this summer (which in the Northern Hemisphere starts in June)? Would a set of Blade F16 plans and your notes on how to modify them to 14' be enough? This way you wouldn't have to work out all new plans and drawings.

Both TheoA and myself are very determined to build a F14 this summer and think your Blade is the best platform to do this with.

Sycho,
I will see what I can do.
Email me privately if you want to explore the options.
Regards,
Phill

Can we have a have a good report on the SF regatta as soon as it's practical please. Anyone up for it?

How are to retro's looking? Anyone have photos of their progress?

I've been quietly looking around down here and I think because we already have two dedicated 14ft cat regattas established close to Sydney we may have the opportunity to really get things moving next season. We probably should be starting to get things organised now though, if we want to make the most of the season.
I'm currently working on fitting the kite to the 430. I'm a bit apprehensive but I'll be doing lots of trialing so I'm confident the boat will go harder downwind and hopefully look the business. I'll post some pics when I have it rigged with the kite.
Bern

cat rigged with kite or sloop rigged with kite Berny?

Darryl I sail it single handed, it's never seen a headsail. I think a main and kite will be enough for me to work with one up.
Bern

The SF regatta smack talk is heating up. One of the anticipated debuts will be a self-tacker on one of the Mystere's. Berny - the 4.3 goes up pretty well as a uni with a much smaller main than your 430, but the jib really makes a difference. I thought of adding the self-tacker to get one of the strings out of my hands, but someone else beat me to the implementation. We'll see how it works.

Also this week added zippers to my jibs instead of the stock hanks. I did it after slightly up-sizing forestay diameter, but I expect better jib performance as a result. I'm meeting a couple of the 4.3 guys around lunchtime on Thursday to rig up, compare winter mods and chew the fat. Watch the event website at www.twinhulls.com for daily updates. Sailing World has requested a "Finish Line" piece for the event, and Walter Cooper will be taking pictures.

Man I got the bug - I even replaced a trailer tail light last night, and I've packed my kit twice already.

JOHN REPLACED A TRAILOR LIGHT???? Now that is real dedication, don't let it get our of control though you will be cleaning your trailer next (what then? doing your own washing and ironing)
zip pocket luffs on the head sails, only way to go.
Berny, a small head sail, cut with a slot in front of the mast works well single handed, but personally I feel that cat rigged is the way to go for the best windward performance then with a spinnaker for down wind, cat rigged and spinnaker gives a good balance together with the simplest way of controlling everything one up, mind you if you add a crew, then sloop with spinnaker will be really exciting AND it gives the crew some thing to look forward to
Darryl

John you sound pumped, I hope you have a good time, as if you wouldn't

I have a preference for uni-rigged cats. They seem to me to be a more efficient package in their simplicity. I would sail an Int. 'A' if they weren't so expensive and too big for the smaller venues and a pain in the a&$$ to rig for a day regatta.

The zippers do make it easier.


I'm thinking furler on the boat to start with to limit the bagage and make it easier to manage till I get it sorted. I'm currently playing with model mockups to try to make a simple, light, smallest size possible snuffer system.
Bern

I will have a laptop complete with wireless internet in my RV (the Sailing Shack). Check with me if you want to use it to post updates from Spring Fever. I'll try to do what I can too.

at the Performance Midwinters, not by choice, but because I discovered as I prepared to leave the beach that the hanks on neither of my jibs would fit over the new forestay. Boy did I feel stupid. I did well in the standings despite the inconsistency in tiller performance, but I think I had the unfair advantage of clear air and lonely mark roundings after all the big boats took off. I was the only boat on the course smaller than 18-feet.

Anyway, uni felt fine and I didn't seem to have the trouble tacking that I've heard about so much. After the regatta, though, more than one 4.3 sailor told me that the boat really lights up in a breeze with the jib, small as it is. My trouble is dealing with all the strings when the wind get to be more than 12 or so. Fahle's promised to show me a trick or two this weekend that will make the self-tacker uneccessary, but I don't know... when crewing on the F-18s and Nacra 20, that self-tacker is really nice and frees me up to concentrate on other things, both upwind and down.

If I were building the boat from scratch as you have done, I expect taking the area of the jib and adding it to the main would be the smart thing to do. To stay 4.3 class-legal, I'm stuck slooped. I guess I could shell out the $1000 or so for a new bigger main and take the rating hit for a non-class-legal, over 5% of max area main sail.

I, too, have considered the furler for the front, particularly for downwind - this boat is so quick to gybe that I really feel like I'm losing some distance every time I let the 'chute go the extra second it takes me to trim the jib after the turn. Makes me want that prehensile tail.

Depending on what the wind does this weekend, I may get up the nerve to try going uni against the sloops and prove to my hard-headed self that the tiny, 20-sq-ft jib really makes a difference. I hate to lose the opportunity to sail toe-to-toe against other 4.3s - I get so lonely down here among all these big boats!

Two more days and I'm on the road! Vacuumed a season's worth of beach sand out of the trusty truck yesterday. As soon as the baby's down for a nap, I'll sort out the sail box, which I left in disarray two weeks ago when pulling out sails and rudders. The loft called last night, and the jibs and new 'chute are ready to be picked up. Tick tock, tick tock.