| Re: Which is the REAL Little America's Cup?
[Re: Mary]
#37790 09/08/04 06:16 PM 09/08/04 06:16 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 251 beaufort, sc dannyb9
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Posts: 251 beaufort, sc | c class as it has been is what i think of as the lil am cup just because they did it first. nobody who spills paint on canvas today is a great artist tho jackson pollock is immortal for originating the idea. the lil am cup belongs in spirit with the original concept in my opinion. the c class challenge is also more similar to the original concept of the americas cup.
marsh hawk
| | | Re: Which is the REAL Little America's Cup?
[Re: Tornado_ALIVE]
#37792 09/09/04 03:50 AM 09/09/04 03:50 AM |
Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland Dermot
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Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland | Both should be great sailing events, but I agree that the C Class is the closest to the spirit and concept of the original. I also see that WF heads his post: "2004 International Catamaran Challenge Trophy", so he is not getting into the controversy. I hope that both events are a sucess and help to promote cat sailing.
Dermot Catapult 265
| | | C-class
[Re: Dermot]
#37793 09/09/04 04:01 AM 09/09/04 04:01 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe |
-1- Past winners of LAC were sailing C-class -2- The history of LAC is linked to C-class -3- C-class is the pinnacle of multihull sailing development just like new AC boat designs -4- There is true development in the C-class even thought most of it will never be used in normal classes
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Which is the REAL Little America's Cup?
[Re: Mary]
#37796 09/09/04 09:00 AM 09/09/04 09:00 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary OP
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | This is Steve Clark's comment on this subject:
As to the LAC moniker, it is really up to the court of public opinion to decide where that belongs. Is it a trophy, a race, a contest in a class of boat, who knows? Neither the C Class nor Sea Cliff can enforce any rights, so what both parties are doing is just not ceding anything to which they have a legitimate right. Messy and hard for people to keep straight, but that's the way the worlds is. I don't think this should cloud the issue, fact is that for the first time in 6 years we are racing C Cats again, and man are they great boats! | | | Re: Which is the REAL Little America's Cup?
[Re: Mary]
#37797 09/09/04 09:11 AM 09/09/04 09:11 AM |
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 115 HobieZealot
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Posts: 115 | I'm not sure why either of these events wants to be associated with the Americas Cup. Maybe the event that is first to be decided by a "little law suit" should get the title.
Last edited by HobieZealot; 09/09/04 09:12 AM.
| | | Re: Which is the REAL Little America's Cup?
[Re: Mary]
#37800 09/09/04 02:09 PM 09/09/04 02:09 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | If I remember correctly, the ICCT only agreed to use the Bimare F18HT for two years and this is the second year. I assume that the motivation for the original switch was because of a lack of activity in the C-class catamarans (which is probably debateable). Switching to the F18HT has definitely brought about a new era with a challenge every year and tons of talent (which I like) but we did certainly loose an aspect of the development that takes place with the C-class boats. I assume that the intention of the ICCT may be to open up the competition to full 18HT rules which does allow a bit of development. Perhaps their intention might be to switch back to a c-class format now that the c-class cats are visibly active again and attention surrounding the ICCT is relatively high.
I'm only guessing and proposing possibilities but I could argue either way regarding who should keep the nickname and as such I agree that nobody should use it!
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Which is the REAL Little (America's ?) Cup
[Re: Tornado_ALIVE]
#37803 09/10/04 03:44 AM 09/10/04 03:44 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 612 Cape Town, South Africa Steve_Kwiksilver
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Posts: 612 Cape Town, South Africa | Now I`m confused, and can only assume the nickname was given to the event some time after 1976, and then probably by an American journalist, since it took the US 13 attempts to win it from the Australians, who held the Cup for 3 years after beating Denmark. So my thinking is that it should have been called the Little British Cup, since they were the longest continuous holders of the cup, and have to this date held the Cup more times than any other team, at 8 in a row. The Auzzies & the US have held it 6 times each, so perhaps the ICCT is a much better name for it. I don`t think a comparison can even be made as to which class is the pinnacle of catamaran design.
To me, the LAC/ICCT lost it`s spark when it became a one-design match-racing regatta, and I`m glad the C-class guys have stepped up to the plate again. I think both are great for cat-sailing, the newer format seems to attract world-class sailors whose names we all seem to know, the only disadvantage of the C-class event is that, outside of C-class themselves, most I`ve not heard of with the exception of Gavin Colby. The other sailors may be top-class sailors, but they seem so involved in developing the boats that we don`t see their names at other class events ie Worlds / Olympics, so it`s hard to guage the level of competition.
Either way, in a perfect world, I`d get to be on a spectator boat for both.
Cheers Steve | | | Re: Which is the REAL Little (America's ?) Cup
[Re: Steve_Kwiksilver]
#37804 09/10/04 06:50 AM 09/10/04 06:50 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary OP
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | The nickname "Little America's Cup" was attached to the event from the very first race in 1961. One story is that it was actually the suggestion of Rodney MacAlpine-Downey, designer of the British C-Class entry, Hellcat.
In the case of the big America's Cup, it is not named for a country. The first race was held in Great Britain as part of a World's Fair. It was a 15-boat race around the Isle of Wight and was called the "Hundred-Pound Cup." The British later renamed it in honor of the winner, which was the schooner "America." If the boat had been named "Emerald," I suppose it would be the "Emerald Cup"? | | | Re: Which is the REAL Little America's Cup?/ One H
[Re: Mary]
#37806 09/10/04 07:38 AM 09/10/04 07:38 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 138 California Sailing Pro Shop
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Posts: 138 California | Mary and all:
The cup was actually known as the 100 Guinea Cup....
In 1848, Queen Victoria authorized the creation of a "One Hundred Guinea Cup" of solid silver (134oz), 27" tall for a yacht race "open to all nations." In 1851 one American boat challenged 16 English ships. The Royal Yacht "Squadron" of Cowes, England was the host. The New York Yacht Club entry was the schooner "America." W.H. Brown, the designer, was so confident of his design that he refused payment if "America" did not win. The oft-quoted remark by the Queen was sparked by a great lead and victory around the Isle of Wight over the 16 other yachts. She asked, "Who is first?" "America" has won, she was told. "Who was second," asked the Queen? The reply still echoes - "Your Majesty, there is no second."
In 30 defenses since then, the interplay of national pride, giant egos, wide-ranging brilliant designs, and now modern technology, have kept the cup very much alive. The 132 years of successful defense by the New York Yacht Club remains the longest record in sports history. Sir Thomas Lipton tried for 31 years to win The Cup, commencing in 1899. From schooners, to J-boats, to 12 meters to the current IOAC designs, men's brains, wits, skills and money have been locked in sea-swept combat.
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Historical Chronology 1851 "America" 1870 "Cambria, the British challenger loses against 14 New York Yacht Club yachts in New York Harbor 1871 New York Yacht Club used two yachts (allowed for the last time) & defeated the English boat "Livonia" 1876 Madeleine defeats the Countess of Dufferin 1877 Canada joins battle, loses 2-0 1881 Canada encore loses 2-0 1885 Centerboard cutter "Puritan" wins over England's "Genesta" 2-0 1886 Another "Burgess" design for the New York Yacht Club "Mayflower" bests England's "Galatea" 2-0 1887 A "hat trick" for "Burgess"; his third win, "Volunteer" wins over Scotland's "Thistle" 2-0 1893 A truly great design, Nat Herreshoft creates "Viligant" and wins 3-0 against "Valkyrie" 1895 "Defender," another Herreshoft, defeats the Earl of Danraven again 1899 Sir Thomas Lipton's "Shamrock" loses to "Columbia" 3-0 1901 "Columbia" 3-0 over "Shamrock II" 1903 16,000 sq.ft. of sail on the Herreshoft designed "Reliance" triumphs over Lipton's "Shamrock III" 1920 The First World War and other events left a gap in challenges until Lipton, on "Shamrock IV" raced against Herreshoft's last Cup boat "Resolute", losing 3-0 1930 The great boats of the J-Class series debut with masts as tall as 165 ft. and over 80 ft. in length. Vanderbilt's "Enterprise" meets Lipton's "Shamrock V" in Newport, R.I., winning 4-0 1937 Ranger beats Endeavour II 1958 - 1987 The 12 meter boats dominate 1958 "Columbia" over England's "Sceptre" 4-0 1962 Australia challenges with Alan Payne's "Gretel" losing 4-1 to Weatherly 1964 "Constellation" swamps England 4-0 1967 Australia's "Dame Pattie" loses to Sparkman's and Stephen's "Intrepid" 4-0 1970 The introduction of the multiple challenger concept. "Gretel II" defeats "France I," and Sweden's "Sveridge" to challenge 1974 Dennis Conner as helmsman on "Courageous" beats "Intrepid" to defend. "Courageous" defeats Alan Bond's Australian boat "Southern Cross" 4-0 1977 Ted Turner's "Courageous" 4-0 over "Australia" that had defeated "Gretel II," "France I," and Sweden's "Sveridge" to challenge 1980 "Freedom" with Conner defeats Turner and Russell Long, then historic win over Bond's "Australia" 4-1 1983 The stage was set. The "winged keel" helped Australia to wrest The Cup from the New York Yacht Club after 132 years as "Australia II" won 4-3 over the New York Yacht Club's "Liberty". The Cup goes to Perth 1987 A true world match: 13 challengers, six from the United States. "Stars and Stripes" from the San Diego Yacht Club with a Conner-Burnham team slamming the "Kookaburra", Australia's defender, in four straight 1991 1992
1995 The Cup resides in New Zealand after 1991 The Cup comes back to the United States with Bill Koch aboard America 3.
Peter Blake and company out sailed all in 1995 returning The Cup to New Zealand.
The rest of the story is current news and most of you probably know it | | |
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