Brian,

I know that a DVD has been made of the 16 Worlds, but I've only seen one copy. I've got the daily videos on my laptop and I could burn them to a CD for you - send me your address via PM & I'll get it to you.

In the same vein, HCA Division 10 has rented a 20'x20' space at the Strictly Sail Show in Chicago (February 3-6). The show offers half-price space to non-profit sailing organizations. We'll have a Tiger and a fully race rigged Hobie 16 there. We'll hand out a ton of flyers and I'm bringing a couple hundred extra copies of the HCA News with me. Hobie Cat Co. is helping to cover the cost of the space and the rest will come from sponsorship.

We did this last year and generated a lot of interest in the sport. The Tiger we had there last year was by far and away the sexiest boat on the floor. (I'm just using it as an excuse to party in Chicago for 5 days .)

I think we need to be different, an example of not to do it.


Sorry Hobie corp and sailors I'm using you as an example this time. HOWEVER similar examples can be given about Nacra and Spitfire classes. So I underline that I'm trying to show a general problem here :

Hobie worlds championship in Melbourne AUS

Participation (having at least raced 1 race) :

Hobie 17 World championship : 16 boats of which 2 US sailors and 14 Aus sailors.

Hobie 18 World championship : 28 boats of which 1 NZL and 1 US crews and 26 Aus boats.

Now good participation, don't get me wrong, but only for a national championship at the most. If anybody submits this to a sailing magazine or newspaper we'll get laughted of the pages. These aren't world championships in the way the public views them ! These are local races with 1 or 2 foreign crews on probably as many charter boats. We need to cut this crap if we want to be taken seriously or make sure that at least 5 continents are represented with the foreigners making up AT LEAST halve the fleet. Otherwise we will be doing ourselfs a favour by changing the name from "Worlds" to "Open nationals". I disagree with ISAF on many things but at least they protect the identifier "Worlds" so that it is only used for true world scale events. I fail to understand why the ISAF is not acting on the ISAF recognised classes like these two.

Extra info :

Hobie 16 : There are 25 crews racing in the Hobie 16 class devided over 3 fleets : 8 boats , 5 boats, 5 boats and 7 boats. Again I'm not counting the crew that haven't sailed at least 1 race out of 8. For all we know these could be imaginairy baots that never travelled to the venue.

Hobie tiger class : 19 boats

One simple question which class is the one you want to be in with respect to competition and numbers ? I venture it in other Hobie 18/Tiger and then H16 on 3rd. Just to show how strong the H16 class is even in Australia. I'll sure be accused of Hobie bashing but what I'm trying to show here how the numbers support the retoric. The point is that we need to be very careful with retoric like this as 85 % of the readers see right through it and will be laughing at us. Lets face it guys a 49-er world championship sees over 15 nations competiting and so too 29-er and splash world championships. We need to take care that we live up to expectations in real life and not just talk our way to it.

You can flame me all you want now, I know what I know and flaming is not going to chance the numbers on events I have provided over the last year (remember the Europeans and EU Nationals data I provided a few months back ?)

Wouter








Hobie 17's and Hobie 18's

I tend to agree with the general idea of your post, Wouter. The participation in these "Worlds" is pathetic. We get more 17's at our North Americans - nearly double.

But where are the Europeans at this event?

I can tell you why I didn't go (and I really wanted to go to this event) - $$$$. The plane ticket alone was $2,500. Bring my wife and daughter along (no way were they going to let me go to AUS by myself) and plane fare jumps to $7,500. By the time it was all said and done, I would have spent over $12,000 to go sailing for a week. That's nuts.

I bought a Tiger instead.

The majority of people buying catamarans are not the ones that are going to the Worlds. They're the ones taking their kids out on the lake and maybe going to one or two races a year. That's the bulk of the market. That's who we need to market to. They don't give a rat's a$$ what's going on in AUS right now.

I don't think there is any H17 class left in Europe. For example in Netherlands there hasn;t been a nationals in H17 since 2000. Same for the TheMightyHobie18's. They are gone.

On the account of chosing between a week of sailing or buying a new Tiger, I think I would have chosen exactly the same as you !

Wouter

Some people have been talking about Cats and particularly Hobies not having a good "image", but I don't agree with that. Here in the UK it is time of year that all the holiday adverts appear on the TV and in Newspapers.

I always find it astonishing how often catamarans are used in the adverts. There is a current TV comercial (for Egypt I think) that features a Hobie 16 flying a hull. There hardly seems to be a brochure that does not feature a picture of a Hobie on it.

These companies spend alot of money on getting thier image right, someone must be telling them that a Hobie presents a certain positive image.

My home town Brighton often uses our catamarans in its promotional material, the Brighton calander features them, a number of postcards for the town feature the Hobies, also our most famous artist uses them regularly in his paintings.
When the BBC did a holiday TV slot about Brighton they featured some film of our Sunday morning racing.

The brochure I got through the door this morning was full of pictures of Cats, a H16, Fox, Tiger etc. Mind you it was a Wildwind brochure

Gareth

[quote]
Extra info :

Hobie 16 : There are 25 crews racing in the Hobie 16 class devided over 3 fleets : 8 boats , 5 boats, 5 boats and 7 boats. Again I'm not counting the crew that haven't sailed at least 1 race out of 8. For all we know these could be imaginairy baots that never travelled to the venue.

Keep in mind Wouter,that this is the ladies ,youth and masters div. only.The 16 nationals does not start untill Jan 4th.Looking at the competitors list there will be 60+ boats alone for that event

In Replying to Matt Miller,
I was pretty sure that a good deal of the Wave sales came from people that experienced sailing them at a resort.

Just a thought, but is there a chance that for each time you sell a boat, you could include information on the class and a way to contact them.

For example, if all the Waves came out of the woodwork, it would probably be the biggest class in the world. If Hobie Cat could simply enclose a brochure with the purchase (the class could make it up)that gave them info on the class and contact info and the ability for them to join an opt-in mailing list, we might be able to get more folks out on the water with us.
And the more folks see a lot of people out there sailing and having fun, the more they want to participate -- sort of the sheep syndrome. baaaah <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just a thought,
Rick

Reply to SOMA when he says, "But the image I get of shuffle board is the one I see almost every day. Old folks game. Not for the young."

But, it is a great way to have your arteries to harden.<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Rick

I would hope that the dealers do this kind of thing as a matter of course, with every kind of catamaran they sell -- give out information about the class association for that type of boat and also contact information for any fleets in their area.

But maybe I am wrong. I know some fleets have a very close relationship with their local dealer, and others do not even have a dealer anywhere in their area.

I can only speak from my perspective as a newcomer to catamaran sailing. While I’m new to cats, I have sailed my entire life. I started out sailing Flying Juniors at 8 years old and went on to sail Lightnings, Lasers, Chickadees, Typhoons, Marshal Cats (Cat boat not catamaran), Junk-rigged Schooners and a Mystic 30. I recount this to let everyone know I’m very comfortable around sailboats.

While I am now in love with catamarans (I have an H17 & a Nacra 6.0), I found sailing catamarans to be a huge adjustment. The very thing that makes cats so appealing (their speed, sail shape, mast adjustments, etc), I believe, puts others off. Let me explain.

Initially, where I struggled the most was with reefing. Most cats, particularly larger ones, do not have the ability to reef. I now understand why this is, but I believe that most sailors (certainly me) want to have the ability to easily reef their mainsail – particularly when sailing with family or friends. Allowing a skipper to easily reef or drop the sail when the wind picks-up makes our cats tamer…and far more appealing. Before I get flamed by the racing purists …remember, we want to avoid making cats seem like toys solely for thrill seekers or racers and make them more appealing for all types of sailors.

I understand that rigging a cat this way is trade-off for racers. However, I’m certain that manufactures can come up with a kit (probably including a new sail) that allows skippers to easily switch between the two while still using the same boat – Heck they can make more money in the process!

Also, I would make standard righting poles on all new cats. I know cats can be righted without them, but why not make it a no-brainer? I attached one to my Nacra, and have found that it far easier to right.

In addition to reefing & righting modifications, I would build cats to make them more family-friendly. Certainly boats with more hull volume and wings go a long way to accomplishing that goal. But I would go further by building larger hatches in the hulls that can easily store lunches and other assorted items that our kids, wives and/or friends like to bring along without the fear of a wave washing it overboard or getting it wet. Hobie is definitely ahead of the pack in this regard with its Getaway.

Lastly, while I am not a great racer (although I’m now working on it!), I would give a slight advantage (lower the Portsmouth rating possibly) to boats that have made the concessions to speed (reefing main, larger hulls and more weight for wings and hatches) so as to encourage those of us who would like to competitively race while still being able to take our family and friends out.

Hope this helps,

Bill Nieuwkerk

Mary,

I realize, after re-reading my post, that my suggestions addressed changes I would make to the boats to make them more appealing versus the marketing of the boats.

Sorry for straying a little beyond what you were looking for - but I do believe that the modifications would improve the product and thereby the marketability of it.

Bill

Hi Bill,
There are cats that are built to the specs that you list, such as the Stiletto 23, 27 etc...Really nice boats.

The beach cat designs seem to be divided into three different types of boats: 1. racers such as f18, I20 etc, 2. cruisers such wave, getaway, and 3. historical designs such as the H16 which aren't cutting edge for racing, nor ar they good cruisers.

So, I guess the answer to your questions is that yes there are some beach cats that fall into the parameters that you outline. But I don't think that its possible to have a boat that does everything well. So the racers want and buy racing boats and so that is what drives that part of the market.

Rick,

Every boat comes with a presentation folder that includes a catalog. We dedicate a page in every catalog to promoting the class, so in that, thay do get class information with every boat sold. I do think that a percentage of these materials get transfered to the new owner and a smaller percentage may actually get read, but... we are trying.

As far as video available from the 16 Worlds. I received a copy from Mexico and reproduced for dealers and fleets use. This is all of the daily videos on one DVD disk.

Send me an email with a mailing address and I can get one out for boat show use.

mmiller@hobieco.com

You would think so, Mary, but they don't and never have in any class I have ever sailed in.., except perhaps the Sunfish or Laser.

Rick

Wouter

How long did people keep their boats when beach cat sailing was in its prime?
Are we so sure that the number of new boats being sold has declined with the decline in participation: has the marketing in response to the reduced participation not exagerated the problem... less people therefore they have to buy a new boat more often philosophy. I think we are sheep, and are being fleeced. I dont know how else to explain the rapidity at which sailors seem to be changing boats, classes emerging etc. Boat marketing seems to be doing too good a job in all areas except new sailor induction. (probably not cost effective)