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The Racing Rules of Sailing - anybody read 'em? #43800
02/02/05 12:10 AM
02/02/05 12:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Jake  Offline OP
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While perusing my 2005-2008 Racing Rules of Sailing, I came across some interesting changes. Part 4, 42 "Propulsion": When considering the roll tack I found interesting.

Quote
42.3 (b) A boat's crew may move their bodies to exaggerate a tack or a gybe, provided that, just after the tack or gybe is completed, the boat's speed is not greater than it would have been in the absence of the tack or gybe.

Now this is certainly not going to be an issue with our catamarans, but I've seen some dingies roll tack and accelerate to a faster speed and then slow down back to normal sailing speed regularly.

The one I really find interesting is this:
Quote
42.3(d) When a boat is above a close-hauled course and either stationary or moving slowly, she may scull to turn to a close-hauled course.


WOW. I think this is huge but I'm conflicted regarding how I feel about it. This means that if I go into irons during a race I can scull my way out of it instead of having to back the boat onto the tack I wanted. On one hand I think about how frustrated I was after just loosing 2nd place on a single poorly executed tack in very light air on a Hobie 17 - I would have held onto second place if I could have sculled. This would have relieving me from one of the more technical aspects of light air sailing on that boat and I don't think it would have been respectful of the skill needed to sail the boat well.

But then I think back to when I got particularly frustrated at a fellow Hobie Wave sailor who not only tacked from port within the 2 length circle of A obstructing my close hauled course, but he sculled through the turn (prior to this rule change). And then he beat me...come to think of it, both arguments I presented are against it....I don't like this rule change.

What do you folks think?


Jake Kohl
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: The Racing Rules of Sailing - anybody read 'em [Re: Jake] #43801
02/02/05 01:06 AM
02/02/05 01:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 131
Ohio
Jamie Diamond Offline
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Jamie Diamond  Offline
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Ohio
Jake,

It's important to remember that sailboat racing is just a big game. A large board, big pieces, but a game none the less. As such, there really isn't much "RIGHT" or "WRONG" to the rules, they're simply the rules of this particular game.

Do you think collecting $200 every time you pass go is a good or bad rule of monopoly?

You now need to ask yourself. Do I want to play the game, or referee the game, or some of both? It is my opinion that simple acceptance of the rules and getting away from trying to apply some higher morality to them will tends to allow me to focus more on the game, to be more successful at the game, and ultimately to enjoy the game more.

p.s. I think that in general the rules have supported rapid movements of the helm to get a boat out of irons for a long time. I will take a look in my last quadrennium rule book tomorrow.

Re: The Racing Rules of Sailing - anybody read 'em [Re: Jamie Diamond] #43802
02/02/05 05:37 AM
02/02/05 05:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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I thought the rules had always allowed "sculling" of the helm to get a boat out of irons or to complete a turn. To not allow it could be disastrous on the starting line, especially for unirigs (and on the course, as well, in a variety of potentially hazardous situations). This new rule was obviously added just as a clarification of the rule that prohibits "sculling: repeated movement of the helm not necessary for steering."

In the case of getting through a turn or out of irons, it obviously IS necessary for steering, but it looks like they added that rule just to clarify it as an "Exception" to the "Prohibited Actions." The basic intent of the sculling rule as a prohibited action is to prevent people from sculling their boat forward in light air -- tantamount to using a paddle.

And the first rule Jake mentioned, about not coming out of a roll tack going faster than you were going when you went into it, has been the rule for quite a while. It looks like they just took a lot of unnecessary verbiage out of it to make it more concise. (This rule is directed mostly toward boats like Lasers that can substantially propel themselves forward in light air by doing a lot of tacks or jibes.)

Re: The Racing Rules of Sailing - anybody read 'em? [Re: Jake] #43803
02/02/05 08:52 AM
02/02/05 08:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Jake  Offline OP
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I just don't remember seeing it so clearly defined I guess. And I certainly know that the general attitude on the race course is that sculling is an unprofessional way to get through a tack - even if it is an advantage.

Quote
You now need to ask yourself. Do I want to play the game, or referee the game, or some of both? It is my opinion that simple acceptance of the rules and getting away from trying to apply some higher morality to them will tends to allow me to focus more on the game, to be more successful at the game, and ultimately to enjoy the game more.

I don't mean to sound like I'm saying that this rule is stupid nor am I trying to imply 'it must change!'. I'm only saying that, at the moment, I don't necessarily understand or agree with it....I pay my dues every year to be able to say that!

I would be interested to see what pieces of this rule existed previously - for the sake of discussion.


Jake Kohl
Re: The Racing Rules of Sailing - anybody read 'em? [Re: Jake] #43804
02/02/05 11:13 AM
02/02/05 11:13 AM
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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They are not saying you can use it as a method of steering through a tack (although I would think that would be a very slow method). They're just saying that if you are stopped or moving very slowly above a close-hauled position, and, in effect, are kind of "stuck," you can scull to get back on course and get your boat under control again. I can see that you would need to have the right to do that in order to PREVENT your boat from tacking when you don't want it to.

Re: The Racing Rules of Sailing - anybody read 'em? [Re: Jake] #43805
02/02/05 11:55 AM
02/02/05 11:55 AM
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Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

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Jake,
A catamaran roll tack is by far the fastest way through a tack, but we all cannot perform this maneuver perfectly each and every time.
Once in a while you might slam into a wave about half way through the turn that stops the boat while it is directly into the wind.
That is when you have to quickly scull the boat to close hauled and get going again.
I really don't recall that as being against the rules.

But to scull your way through every tack would be very, very slow indeed. If you blow most tacks, it may be the only way to go.
As Mary said, to skull while on a close hauled course has always been illegal.
Rick




Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: The Racing Rules of Sailing - anybody read 'em [Re: RickWhite] #43806
02/02/05 12:31 PM
02/02/05 12:31 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Rick, could you give a comment about roll tacking cats?

We sail a Tornado, and have found the roll tack to be effective in medium wind conditions, especially if we are able to trapeeze. But in drifters (both persons on the tramp) we have found that it is faster to just steer trough the tack. What is your opinion?


Further, when it is really blowing, there is no time to do a roll tack, just move back on the boat, steer into the tack, and then sprint across to hook up on the other side (unless your timing is bad and you stop of course, then accentuate weight).
Comments?

We feel that the T tacks a lot better with the new rig..


We have always sculled to get trough a tack if we messed up, unless we start going backwards.. Then its back to reverse steering, fortunately, we have learnt a bit so we do fewer bad tacks each season.
I always tought that it was allowed to pull the rudder to steer the boat, but not to aid in propulsion as with sculling.

Re: The Racing Rules of Sailing - anybody read 'em? [Re: RickWhite] #43807
02/02/05 02:02 PM
02/02/05 02:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Jake  Offline OP
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OK...well, I guess somehow I missed the boat! I had always assumed that sculling, at any time during a race, was not legal. I'm not really even considering sculling in a moderate breeze, but rather, in the really really light stuff we have up here from time to time on the lakes....the type where the upwind leg takes 45 minutes or better!

We still run and count the 'ultr-light' races if there's nothing else to score.


Jake Kohl
Re: The Racing Rules of Sailing - anybody read 'em [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #43808
02/02/05 05:53 PM
02/02/05 05:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

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RickWhite  Offline

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Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
"Rick, could you give a comment about roll tacking cats?

We sail a Tornado, and have found the roll tack to be effective in medium wind conditions, especially if we are able to trapeeze. But in drifters (both persons on the tramp) we have found that it is faster to just steer trough the tack. What is your opinion?"

I believe it is effective in any wind conditions. When I worked with Randy Smyth and his group just before Randy won his last medal, we pretty much spent a lot of time on the roll tack.
Lovell, Ogletree, Guck and a herd of others were there. I remember Lovell had me take video of his roll tack and he added a little bit more left over from his dinghy days -- he kept a foot under the hiking strap and did a kick at the last second to free the new windward hull from the water more. It seemed pretty effective.
I could never do the kick maneuver, however, because I was already too old and slow.

I would think in light air it would even be more important -- you are turning slower and very much need to shorten the water line on the old windward hull and keep as much of the old leeward hull out of the water as possible.

Perhaps it just feels better in moderate air.

And in heavy air it just happens quicker, but the same principals should apply -- seen a lot of Ts have slow tacks due to running across too fast.

In survival conditions (ya'll call off the races then anyway), just getting through the tack right side up is good enough. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: The Racing Rules of Sailing - anybody read 'em [Re: RickWhite] #43809
02/02/05 06:05 PM
02/02/05 06:05 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Thanks Rick!

Will work some more on roll-tacking in light air, and see if we can get it going. It sounds really slow tough (lots of gurgling at the back of the boat), when we go back to pivot on the old windward hull. Will definately try the 'hiking-kick' routine (would have been nice to have that one on your roll-tack video).


Re: The Racing Rules of Sailing - anybody read 'em [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #43810
02/03/05 12:01 PM
02/03/05 12:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

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RickWhite  Offline

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There should never be gurgling from the back of the boat -- remember you are moving aft during the turn.., not moving aft and then turning.
Sorry I couldn't do the kick in the video.., again, I am too old and clumsy. And I couldn't find the video of Johnny.., and if I had been able, the quality would have been too poor for commercial use.
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com

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