I had posted earlier about adding a spinnaker to my H-18, and got some good posts, and I was refering to those for reference in my quest. But then the evil database problem came to be, and though it was valiantly defeated, the H-18 spin thread (yes, and others...) was lost! So... Wouter, you had some good links, could you post them again? Todd from Connecticut, you had provided some good info too. Anybody else feel like re-posting info they provided? I ended up buying the SX spinnaker from Todd from Texas, and am getting ready to do some test fits and "engineering"!



Thanks!

Keith here you go !





[url=http://www.geocities.com/f16H...f16HPclass/Tech_genaker_mast_setups.html [/url]



All the links I supplied are given on that webpage.



I have tried option 4 of the mast hound system at the Spring Fever regatta on Bill's boat and I must say that I think that that is the best option out of the four alternatives given.



The double loop system has another advantage that I didn't expect and that is that this system results in the little block moving through a more horinzontala plane than is the case with option 1.



If your TheMightyHobie18 has a comp tip than I would strongly advice option 4 where the vertical loop is lead to the masthook. This way you will load-up the palstic masttrack of the competip the least.



The horinzontal loop can well be fixed on the masttrack for option 4 intrduces only very small loads on the horinzontal loop. I woul drill two holes on both sides of the track right through the reinfored webbing of the plastic masttrack. AND tie the knots on the outsside of the track so that the loop rather compresses the track together than pulling it apart. The first will definately be the more durable setup.



I hope this helps and good luck. BTW, don't forget to inquire about spi's made abroad, you will save money.



Regards,



Wouter



BTW ; this particular F161 webpage dealing with how to make your genaker mastsetup will be updated soon with pictures of option 4 and the document will be updated also. SO check back in a few weeks time.

Don't forget to use a small but rounded shackle. This won;t wear down the line as the sharped edges of tape like shackles and the pully block itself would.



Wouter

I still have an all-metal mast as I race open class and just can't bring myself to cut it down to install the comptip. So, my comptip stays in its plastic wrap in the garage... But, all good information! Pole attachment and halyard mounting are where most of my thoughts are, so this info is definitely helpful!

Keith,

The SX spinnaker should work well. If I were you I would find out the measurement hobie reccomends for placing the spin tang on the SX. Since you have an all aluminum mast the mast will support a tang that high... a comp tip mast probably would not handle that as well. My guess is it is about 4 feet above the shroud tang. Since the SX mast is roughly 2 feet taller than an SE mast and hobie reccomends putting the spin tang about two feet above the shroud tang on all their boats. As long as you are talking to them you should ask the reccomended pole length.

I just bought a new smyth spinnaker for my 18. Randy suggested a 12'6" pole and the tang placed at 23'.

Some sailmakers will do the math for you and figure out where the tang should be and etc. I know Dave Calvert did that for one of the 18s here. I just rigged the boat in the yard. Tied the tang to the mast with the block and attached the main halyard to it. I rose it up and down until I found where the spinnaker looked best shaped without the tang being extrememly high. It was fairly easy and if you have the time I would sugest you do the time. I have been using a small nacra tang with swivel block but I think I am going to try somethin similar to what the tigers and etc are doing with a non-swivel block pretty high up the mast and a bail a couple feet under that. The spinnaker halyard runs through the block then through the bail. It looks like it distributes the load more and gives the spinnaker more room to keep from getting twisted up top.

-Todd

Hi Todd,

I haven't had tremendous success in trying to find what the "stock" SX mounting locations and pole lengths are. I've been in email contact with folks from NAHCA, lots of good info but no definitive word on SX kites. The sail is actually from UK Sailmakers (there is no Hobie patch), although it measures just like an SX spin and it is the black with pink stripes seen in SX pictures. I tried email contacting the local UK loft to no avail. From the IHCA rules page I've gotten some maximums for the SX, and I figure I'll start with those as the ballpark for a fitting session.



As far as I can tell from the NAHCA site, the SX mast is 1'6" taller than the regular 18. That length seems to be carried in the metal section of the mast up to the hounds - I've deduced this from the fact that the SX and 18 seem to share the same comptip, but not the same diamond wires. The 18 comptip attaches just above the hounds. The 18 mast is 20' to the hounds. The 2 foot above the hounds you mention would then correspond to 23' 6" from the SX base, which I believe is about what the IHCA SX rules state. That means my ballpark is 3'6" above the hounds - close to the 4' you mention. I think the IHCA rules state 11'6" for the pole - I was thinking 12 to 13 feet - interesting that Smyth says 12'6" for yours!



I figured it would be common knowledge as to the preferred mounting for the spin sheet blocks for the SX, but I only get the standard answer that some people when mounting kites mount them to the stays, some to the rear beam. I kinda figured I'd get a more definitive answer for this one... My guess is that with a 16' foot on the sail with a a 12' pole, I'll be sheeting from the rear beam - a trial fit will tell, the cut of the sail will ultimately determine it I guess.



The thing that is driving me crazy thinking about it is the pole mounting. The shape of the 18 crossbeam seems to defeat most ideas. How are you mounting yours? You mentioned before that you mounted it to the striker, but then changed. What's your new method? Are you running the guy lines for the end of the pole from the bridal tangs, or did you drill holes through the hull lip near the bow?



Also, and this is getting ahead of myself as the boat is not together yet, how do you store the sail on the tramp? It would seem that the fact that the jib overlaps quite a bit makes for one more thing to get it tangled in with the halyard, sheets, and tack line having to go over or under the jib and sheets. Any hints there?

Sounds right about your idea for 3'6" above the hounds. Matt Miller at hobie cat should be able to tell you the measurements. That is where I ran my 21 storm spinnaker and it ran well.

My friend bought a 11'6" from hobie and it was horrible. After seeing my 14' pole he quickly ordered an extension for it. 12'6" seems to be the best length. 12' works but it is a bit short. 13' is starting to get on the long end. 14' is really long but worked well for the huge spin I had.

As far as block mounting the best option is to mount something onto the rear crossbeam then another block on the rear of the jib traveler. You would have to have a very long pole... such as 15' to mount your blocks on your sidestays. I did this with a 14' pole and a spin with a 14'6" foot and it worked but not well. If I had kept the spinnaker I would have moved the blocks to the rear crossbar.

I did have the pole on the striker. But the pole is not designed well for pressure pushing and back like the spinnaker pole does. I think I may have widened the hole the striker pole goes into a bit and there is now a bit more play in the pole.

I am still working on something to mount it on the front crossbeam. I am having the same problem you mentioned and I think I am going to bring the front crossbeam to a metal shop and have them make something up custom. It may been drilling it off whenever I want to take the tramp on and off though.

For the bridles I drilled new holes in the front of the bridle tangs...trying to stay away from drilling holes in the boat.

I attach a shackle to that hole and i run a 3:1 system from the pole to the bridle tang, with a bowline in one end and I pull each side tight to create a couple feet of pre bend. Randy also said that pre bend would be good (after I had ran it w/ 2 feet of pre bend all last season). It keeps the pole from rising up some much when it is under high loads.

As for placing the bag on the tramp.. I just put it about a foot back from the mast in the center of the tramp. I have never had any problems wit hthe jib getting in the way... sometimes I let the jib out a bit to give the spin more room. But don't furl it up... with the jib furled up the sheets get in the way more and when you are dropping the spinnaker you often accidentley take the spinnaker down on the wrong side of the sheets.

Good luck,

Todd

Hi guys...the above photo from whitecaps.net>http://www.

whitecaps.net shows the installation of a hooter pole on my previous Prindle 19. This should be quite similar to what you are doing with the spinnaker pole on your boats.



As for sail sheeting point, it works quite well on the I20 and other modern spinnaker boats to have a spinnaker with a smaller foot and sheet it to the shroud. Of course, the sail has to be sized/shaped for whatever sheeting point you use. Several P19 sailors in SoCal have had spinnakers made like this for their boats with great results. They also use the snuffer system rather than a tramp bag, which is very user friendly, even solo.



Sail fast and have fun,

Alan Thompson

I20 - San Diego

That link should have read http://www.whitecaps.net --Alan

That won't work without drilling it off to take the tramp on and off. I am going to bring my x-bar to a local metal fabricator and have them make something up. If it is at a reasonable price I will let you know and maybe I can get one made for you too.

-Todd

Todd,

I think I have come up with something using a spare wing mount beam track slug. I had a spare one, you need to use the one for the rear mount, as they are a bit longer than the front. It fits into the opening in the front cross beam, and it's just long enough to hold (at least on my boat). Used with all the hardware - the threaded stud, and the v-shaped brace (? don't really know what to call that piece), it puts a strong stud in the middle of the front cross beam (well, almost middle, it's offset a little to one side or the other, but close enough). This can either be used as the pin in a pin and hole method (hole in end of pole, simply fits over the pin), or like I'm trying - an old boom vertex fits over the stud, a nut on the end of the stud holds it in place. On the end of the pole I drilled a hole through. The end of the pole fits over the stud/vertex and a bolt goes the hole and through the vertex. I need to put something inside the end of the pole to limit side-to-side movement, but so far it looks very promising. No holes to drill in the cross beam, and although it's a little tight with the inside edges of the tramp halves it fits well.



I post the pics of it soon.