I'm wanting to race in the F16 class and have come across a Freestyle 474 for sale. General modification that are needed are installation of a jib and spinnaker. I haven't checked the length, mast height, mainsail area or weight yet but believe everything is in order or would require minor alterations to meet the rules.

I'm wondering if anyone else has converted a freestyle into an F16. I've found a few places on the web that suggest it would fit in the rules with appropriate mods.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

sorry never heard of the class..

The Freestyle 474 is a great boat and would defintely do well as an F16 conversion. No one has done it yet that I'm aware of.

One word of caution--I would look very carefully at the mast if you're adding a spinnaker. I have two friends who have broken their Freestyle 474 masts.

thanks for the info...I'm not too fussed about the mast if it breaks, planning on getting a replacement anyway as soon as I can afford one...

I do have a concern that lowering the forestay bridle height to accommodate a jib and spinnaker pole may put too much side force on the bows. Does anyone have any guidance on the matter, ie. the laminate used in the hull, the laminate used in current f16's in this area, etc?

Hi Nick,

welcome to the F16 class, I hope you go ahead with the project boat, Freestyle 474. I have never heard of the boat down south, it may be a USA built/designed boat, as it looks like our friends over there know it. So we may have to rely on them for more info.

On the lowering of bridle front, be very careful, as I found with "Altered" the loads are not to be under estimated. Reinforcing only realy works if it is done inside the hull putting in horizontal panel worked for "Altered" and was no problem for McKenzie Composites you can't even tell the bottoms where cut off hulls to put it in.

The alternatives to reinforcing hulls are putting spreader in bridle like some Nacra's, I think they call it a floating beam. Or leaving bridle where it is and tacking jib down to pole with a strut in between. You can see this on many of the photo's on Forum, I think the most recent shots showing it was of the Stealth at UK event?

How high is Bridle above bows at moment perhaps we can get some measurements from others to compare it to and give you an idea of how far you need to change it. As far as hull laminates I think it would be hard to compare as the stuctures inside make a big difference as well.

As you say mast is a easy fix, you can possibly pick up secondhand Super Wing Taipan mast there is one on their Website at the moment, or do what I did get secondhand A class mast and put timber web inside it, bringing it up to weight and making it bullet proof .

Anyway good luck with it and just ask if you need help, there is usualy somebody here that knows something .

Regards Gary.

Nick,
I remember reading about the Freestyle 474 in mags back in the 80s. Never actually seen one.
From memory it was a one man boat. If you add a jib and crew in addition to Gary's wise comments check the bouyancy in the hulls or be very carefull with the weight of the crew you sail with.

Good luck.

Regards,
Phill

Here's a pic I found on a US site of a 474:




I'd agree with all that Gary has said about the jib and pole arrangement and bow loading. I think that I would opt for a 'floating' bow beam a bit like the present Dart 16 uses. But I wouldn't put any upward (or downward) loading on it. The jib should be attached to the spin pole and fitted with a prodder to transfer the load up to the main bridle. To make it all work you'll need a pair of wires going to the tip of the pole. A pair of wires going to the pole where the jib is attached. And finally you're main (larger size) bridle wires set above the pole by about 2ft. The prodder is an adjustable compression tube that sits beween the bridle wire and the pole at the point where the jib attaches.

I got in contact with a guy who successfully installed a kite on his freestyle in the US.

Yeah I've found those pics from 2001-2002 regattas. From the race results it seems to be a reasonable performer.

My crew and I would be 140kg wringing wet. We will however be checking the weight of the boat in its current configuration and hopefully chuck it on the water at some stage too before purchase.

I've been contemplating a forward floating beam like the nacras but wanted to keep it a bit higher off the water. The Dart's arrangement looks like a good compromise.

Another minor concern I have is that it has no boom. It is arranged like some of the nacras with the adjustable mainsheet position on the foot with a stiff bottom batten. I can see it having a detrimental effect on outhaul when saling downwind and being a long-time dinghy sailor it's a bit disconcerting not having one there, but is a boom really necessary. Any comments?

Nick.

Another newbie question...

Why do cats not use spinnaker bags?

Having sailed quit a few spinnaker dinghies, I have found that my crews are much faster at setting and dropping a kite with a bag than a chute (nearly half as many boat lengths to drop compared with a chute depending on conditions).

I don't understand the nearly 100% acceptance of chutes. Not only do I find them slow but I've found they stretch the sail out of shape very quickly.

Is it just because it's hard to find a place to install a bag?

OK,
Boom: No a boom is not really necessary, but if you have one it gives you much more control over sail shape. It is easier to control mast rotation (lines come off boom) and you can apply loads of outhaul to flatten the sail when it blows (the amount you can apply with the sliding clew system is necessarily limited). You can also control mast bend better with a boom and it allows you to max your leech tension. However the boat would sail perfectly happily as is. Downwind you wouldn't necessarily need a boom as with the kite up the sail is almost central on the track and sheeted for a close reach.

Bags v. chutes: The general trend is indeed towards chutes. However some people do prefer and use tramp bags. It really is personal preference. Originally, when I spent most of my time two-up we used a Hobie Tiger tramp bag (it's still on the boat even now) but I quickly discovered that when solo it's a no go. You just can't get the kite down quickly (and safely) into a tramp bag on your own. So now we have a chute instead.

That's Mike Egan. He always did well on his Freestyle. Mike sails a Waterrat A-cat now--he's doing well on that too and we enjoy sparring with him on our F16s.

there were a few 474's in Australia in the early 80's and there was one here in South Australia that had a jib. From memory it still had a fairly high bridle with an extension below the bridle/forestay connection which allowed them to have the jib tack lower than that point and still keep the bridle still quite highly mounted. It seemed to have a good turn of speed but I never saw any of them ever raced. They were relatively heavy when compared to the main cat that they would have had to compete against I.E the mosquito, but no problem when matched against the Hobie 16

mmm you're right about being heavy, about 160kg rigged without jib and spinnaker setup

too bad...will keep looking

Hi Nick,

don't lose interest, if you are after a good cheap competitive boat you can't go wrong with a Mosquito. Alot of them are timber, in fact the only older boat I would look at is timber, old glass boats where generaly hard to fix and heavy.

The other advantage is if you get a Mossie, all the gear to set up for spinnaker has been worked out. There must be some in northern states for sale, check in Trading Posts etc. and on Mossie site. http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mosquito/

Regards Gary.

I've got a Freestyle that is something of a project boat. I bought it with the idea of racing F16. Very little data is available on the boat. Seems tey wern't in business long. Hull material is all glass (no foam sandwitch). My idea is to race unirig (one up). I'll keep you posted.
NT

Should make a fun F16, BUT make sure you reinforce the mast before adding a kite--I know of two that have folded.