This was my second T4.9 capsize, both solo and I could not get it up (no pun) either time. I was very successful righting the old N5.2 and just didn’t think this would be an issue with the 4.9. The first capsize, I failed to uncleat the main, so I chocked it up to that and poor technique. This time I completely blew the main and traveller and the spin was out of the water. The boat was oriented mast to wind, so the wind was blowing directly on the tramp. Even then no luck. The boat really wanted to move while putting some heat on the righting line. I’m about 190 lbs and have the “Hawaiian” style righting system supplied with the boat. So why? Three ideas. The ratio of the hull weight to the rig weight is much lower affecting righting characteristics? Poor technique? “Hawaiian” style righting system plus narrow boat? The boat is a few inches shy of 8 ft and the Hawaiian style righting system attaches to the front beam inboard side of hulls. I was able to right the old N5.2 but had to “stack the deck” a bit in my favor. I either needed the wind blowing directly on the tramp , or the boat pointed nearly head to wind to get air under the sail. I typically did not uncleat the main or traveller. Perhaps sheeting/travelling the sail in to allow water to run off but also allowing air to get under. So, first I’ll try an “over the top” righting line, outboard of the hull, then if that doesn’t work, I’ll go for the “pole”… Happy sailing!

Hi Dave,

I have never had to right the boat sailing 1 up with the spin, but have had no problem sailing 1 up or 2 up wo spin. I have been getting the boat facing into the wind - the bows that is. I can see where if you have the mast into the wind and it is blowing hard there is going to be alot of force on the sail to keep it down. when you get the bows in the wind and the mast perpendicular to the wind, the wind can get under the sail and help you get over. I have a loop in the righting system supplied with the boat that is the right height and I just put the loop into my harness and it usually pops right up. (I weigh about 165). I have only righted the boat with the chute out when sailing 2 up - and that wasn't a problem either. I have heard of having to pull the spin in - if it is filled with water you are going to have a real tough time. Hope that helps.



Chuck

Oh yeah - I definitely release the main and traveler.

Hi Dave,



I'll add one more thing to what's already been said. Assuming you're not turtled - to get the boat oriented properly with respect to the wind, move your weight towards the front of the boat until the bow just starts to go under - the sterns will swing around until the wind is hitting somewhere between the bows and the mast. Then move your weight aft a bit and lean back on the righting line. The wind will get under the main and right the boat for you. At 160lb I've been able to right the boat by myself with a 15-20MPH breeze. I still need to get around to capsizing in lighter air to make sure I can still right it by myself w/o problems



Kenn Newbury

The spi must be retracted and stuffed before attempting to right the boat. Sometimes you can right it with the spi still set but most of the times it will totally prevent you from getting anywhere.



Next, if you trurtled and you have the standard AHPC mast THAN you probabky had water in the mastsection. The AHPC mast is not sealed and there are gapping whole at the hounds.



I found when sailing skiffs which use much the same hound system that these boat are rightable but they take a bit time to let the water run out of the mast.



Best then is too hook yourself to the righting line with your trapeze. Righting line must go over the hull to make hanging on it more comfortable. lift the mast just a little bit and wait for the water to run out. The boat will slowly lift more and more. VERY slowly depending on the water it has shed. Climb a little higher in the rope and get the rest of the water out and once it is out and you can feel that very well. continue with the righting technic. May take 30 to 40 secs to complete this whole sequence.



Better = sealed mast.



If this was not the case => turtle and standard AHPC mast then forget what I wrote.



Wouter

Wouter-

I'm replying to the turtle question from the other thread here to try to keep the topics separated. No the boat did not go turtle. Both times I've capsized, I've been over for quite a while and the boat showed no tendency to turtle. I believe the AHPC mast is sealed. Mine has what appears to be some high density, closed cell spray type foam oozing out of some of the penetrations. DCS

Dave,



One more thing I just remembered . . .

At Jim's suggestion, I used some expanding foam (buy it in a spray can at the hardware store) to put a plug in the mast where the diamonds are attached to the mast. I also drilled a small hole a little above the cunningham hardware and put a foam plug there (closed the hole up with a rivet) - hopefully this will allow us to right the boat from the turtled position. I also tried to seal any rivets/fittings above the lower plug I just described. It probably sounds like I'm paranoid, but I learned the hard way w/ our H-18 just how tough (impossible) it can be to right a cat w/ water in the mast.



Kenn

Ken,



I wish I knew where to buy some 'closed cell' spray in foam in a can. However, I suggest that you spray a test piece of your foam soak it in water for a day or two. I have found that the spray foam from the hardware store will absorb water and become heavy. Just a heads up for you.

I did a search on "spray foam" on West Marine and came up with this. I have not used, so I'm not sure if it'll soak the water or not.



http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/co...prmenbr=201&prrfnbr=2744&outlet=

I've rigged several taipan masts and I have successfully sealed my mast by using foam, stryrofoam or polystyrene, and silicon.



Make a foam plug up and coat the flat surface with silicon. make up another plug and do same. Force one plug down the mast. This one has to be a really tight fit and hard to push in.



The next one is pushed in so the silcon sufaces meet and the silicon is compressed which forms the seal. One trick I learnt early on was to drill a small hole in second foam plug to allow air to escape while pushing it in. The hole is also sealed when the silicon compresses.

I also seal my masts from very top to just above the internal downhaul.

Works for me.

Phill- Your response begs the question, do the Aluminum T4.9 masts come from AHPC sealed? I thought I read this somewhere in the literature, and my mast sure acts like it is sealed.



Thanks for all the great response on my quetions/adventures. I sure am having fun with this new boat!



Another unrelated question. How come there is not much Australian participation on this forum. I would think you guys have a huge wealth of info on the 4.9. Do you use other bulletin boards to swap info? I understand you guys don't race Taipans with the spin, but don't lots of guys fly them for fun? Just curious. DCS

wouter

A very neat trick !



Do you mind if I make another Tech article on and put it onto the F16 website ? Looks like a very good problem to make such an article on.



WOuter

Most of the Aussies post on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taipan/



Ask them there about spis or any other question. You'll get plenty of useful information.



Berthos

Thanks again to all. Kenn and Chuck, you guys are both using the righting system supplied with the boat, the line that attaches to the front crossbar inboard of the hull? Or are you using an "over the top" line?



Kenn- Nice sail number! It is kinda weird to pull up a pic of somebody else and see the number that was once on your boat! Also, how do you like the EO snuffer. Are there some real advantages/disadvantages when compared to the Guck. Those seem to be the only two "off the shelf" options. I should probably start this on a new thread. DCS

Dave,



Yes, I'm using the 'stock' righting system - though I replaced the original line with one that's a little longer. We used the 'over the top' (line tied to dolphin striker) on our TheMightyHobie18. I think the only advantage to 'over the top' (assuming you haven't turtled) is that you don't need as strong a grip on the righting line when you lean out. The righting moment is the same, but the line tension is a little higher with the stock system. I like the idea that's been brought up to hook into the righting line with your trap harness.



The EO snuffer functions very well (launch and retrieval are quick and easy), but it is pretty ugly IMO. I chose it because bag launching just isn't an option for us, and the skunk wasn't out back when I bought the EO snuffer. I'm not sure what I would do if I were making the decision now. The EO snuffer is less $, but doesn't look as slick. In the conditions we had at SF, I didn't feel like it was slowing us down or keeping us from pointing relative to the other T4.9s (the others were skunkin' or bag launching). However, many of us are new to the boat, and this was just one set of sailing conditions - not a very objective test. Windage/pointing issues seem to provide the strongest arguments in favor of the skunk (I've heard the weight placement argument, but don't feel that it has much merit).



Kenn Newbury

I have never bought a rigged T4.9 mast only blanks.

I know there are masts with the top only sealed. That is sealed from the top to the hounds.

(I can't say is this is done by the owners or AHPC)

Below the hounds the "T" ball diamond fitting makes it a bit suss to seal the whole mast.

I don't use the "T" ball sysytem and seal the lot.

Having said that, it is not really neccessary to seal the lot, as the mast is so bouyant with only the top part sealed it rarely takes on much water through the "T" ball fitting.



As far as righting goes. I use 8mm silver rope as it does not absorb water. The rope goes from the front beam where it meets the gunwale in a "V" held up by shock chord to the other side , same position. I have a knot every 12 inches. When I tip I wrap the rope at a knot twice around my trap hook which fres my hands to hold out over my head to get more weight out. As the hull moves up I can bring my hands in, and pulled the rope tru to the next knot and so on.



Works for me.



Hope it helps.

Phill

Hi everyone



I'm still reading all the posts on this forum and came across this one - thought I'd share a couple of ideas from downunder in relation to righting and mast sealing.



1.Righting

To my knowledge no-one in Australia uses anything other than a righting rope for any of the cat classes - certainly not on T 4.9's

I sail cat rig and use a 10mm rope tied to the dolphin striker and over-the hull - I found this provides just that little bit of additional leverage when the boat is half up to make the difference. This rope retracts with shock cord when not in use.

In addition to turning the boat into the breeze and releasing the main sheet and traveller rope the real trick is to release the downhaul !! - if you dont't release the downhaul the sail retains optimum shape and starts generating lift as soon as it gets out of the water the wind moves over it and sucks the rig back down into the water - this is particularly vital in light conditions.



2. Mast Sealing



To my knowledge the T 4.9 masts are sealed only at the top by most sailors. Sometimes sailors put some silicone in the rivet holes and T-swages around the hound / diamond wires. If you are going turtle and the water reaches the diamond arms my opinion is that no amount of sealing is going to save you - the trick is to get off the boat as soon as possible after capsize - the T 4.9 will go turtle if you let it but it usually takes time or lots of wind to push it over. In most instances you should be able to get the boat up and sailing again within 30 seconds or so with a bit of practice.



For my 2 cents worth I never completely seal my masts and only seal from the top (block of foam with silicone) to the hound. Firstly I like to ensure my mast remains dry inside with no trapped water inside and I have also found that on a hot day the mast heats up so much that when it hits the cold water on a capsize the sudden temperature change causes a vacuum in the mast which will suck water into the mast even through seals unless there are enough openings to equalise pressure rapidly (it is not unusual on hot measuring days for crews to cool down their masts before measuring to ensure the masts 'contract' within the maximum length limits due to the affect of sun heat)



Of course there may be no science to the above but it seems to work.



cheers



James

T4.9 AUS 153 'Woof'

Hi all,



Just thought I'd put in my two cents as well...



I've been sailing my Taipan for 6 years with the righting rope supplied by AHPC. Its just the simple under the front beam type held to the back by shock cord. I've always competed sloop rigged although the times that I've sailed cat rigged I haven't been able to right the boat by myself once. At 69kg (152 pounds) its no wonder but I thought I'd share how the lighter people do it.



I just wrap the righting rope once around my trapeze harness and hold myself out at an angle and then get my crew about 55kg (120 pounds) to lean against me. If the boat is across the wind with the mast pointing in the wind direction it can be a real pain in the butt because there is nothing stopping the boat in the water and the boat just wants to sail sideways directly downwind! So if you can turn the boat around its much easier.



As for letting the downhaul off, I've always just left it on and grabbed onto the dolphin striker near the lower hull, if the boat wants to tip over again then it has to drag me out of the water. Sure the whole rig flaps around like nobody's business when its up but its not too bad. Just a cautionary note, make sure to file the hard edge off the dolphin striker - the first time I did this in any wind my hand slid some way along it and cut the inside of my finger.



Just for the record, my mast came from the factory with two styrofoam plugs in it creating an air pocket between just above the hounds and the very top.



Cheers,

Andrew. :-)

Hi all



Just to clarify - letting off the downhaul provides significant assistance getting the mast and sail up beyond the point where they are just out of the water (ie parallel with the water)where it becomes most difficult to lift the rig up any further. It wont stop the boat going over again when it gets up, when - as Andrew suggests - you have to make a jump for the dolphin striker. On the other hand it will stop the boat from taking off again before you get on board. Andrew's point about filing the striker strap is a good one!!



cheers





James



T 4.9 AUS 153