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FREE Taipan F16 in California !! #64964
01/17/06 06:57 PM
01/17/06 06:57 PM
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pkilkenny Offline OP
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Ahhh damn, that should have read: "FREE Taipan F16 RIDES in California !!"

Thing is, it's that time of year (winter) when sailors look at potentially finding a new class of boat for the coming season of active Cali. Cat racing !! I want to offer a ride on my F16 to any California, San Francisco Bay Area sailor who might want to join the explosive growth of the USA F16 class ! Particularly if you're a monohull sailor who thinks
the Cali. cat racing scene involves bongs ,bare feet and Bermuda shorts ; come check out a cat. with S.C.P /Bethwaite ratio's better than anything this side of an Aussie 18 (and maybe better than them too...) that's about the same price as a new 29er skiff and trailer !

If you're in California and thinking about a new sailing challenge shoot me a PM !!!

Paul Kilkenny
San Francisco Bay Area






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Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: pkilkenny] #64965
01/17/06 08:43 PM
01/17/06 08:43 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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I'm available to gives rides too!


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: ejpoulsen] #64966
01/17/06 11:31 PM
01/17/06 11:31 PM
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pkilkenny Offline OP
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Hey Doc ,

Regarding preparations for the Long Beach Midwinters (Feb.19-20):

1.) I'm pretty sure I can get us invitations to Bob Seger's party since i'm officially "press" (thanks Mary) and you have all of his albums.Can we take the Ferrari as it would rather complete the whole "hanging with Rock Stars" deal?

2.) I've got some leads on a place to stay really close to the YC (to be honest - it is the YC - parking lot...).

3.) I'm still trying to get us into Dr. Laura's party in Newport. I've called repeatedly but am not dysfunctional enough to get on the show to ask for an invite.Could you make a Professional Courtesy call to her people so I won't have to sail onto the big boat course and hail her during crew prayer like last year ; and the Ferrari would be cool for this also...

4. The Snoop Dog thing isn't likely to happen after all (the whole catamaran sailors are whack mantra plus your Bob Seger albums...). Sorry. BUT, the Dennis Connor consult is a definite - if we can do it at Dr. Laura's in Newport.Oh, and the Ferrari would be ... you know...


PK


Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: pkilkenny] #64967
01/18/06 10:00 AM
01/18/06 10:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
_flatlander_ Offline
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Quote
the Cali. cat racing scene involves bongs ,bare feet and Bermuda shorts


Dammit Paul don't blow it, that's exactly what I'm trying to sell to the tat laden, ex-skaters! "This scene is sooooo fresh, some rich dude in nocal is given' away a F16!!!"


John H16, H14
Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: pkilkenny] #64968
01/18/06 06:42 PM
01/18/06 06:42 PM
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Damm! Thought I was onto a good thing. I sail a Mosquito catamaran in Australia. (photo of a copule of Mozzies atached) The Mozzie is a 4.9, same as the Taipan but under a shorter rig with less sail)

My daughter crews on a Taipan 4.9 and is after me to upgrade from the Mozzie to a Taipan. Thought I would come across and sail your Taipan home ;-)

When/how did you get hold of a Taipan? Didn't know there were too many of this great Australian boat across your sidew of the pond.

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Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: _flatlander_] #64969
01/19/06 12:01 AM
01/19/06 12:01 AM
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pkilkenny Offline OP
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John,

You sound like exactly the kind of guy we're looking for in the Cali. F16 fleet !

Doc - one more ticket to Dr. Laura's for our friend from Kansas !

Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: MozzieBite] #64970
01/19/06 12:16 AM
01/19/06 12:16 AM
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pkilkenny Offline OP
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Mozziebite ,

We've been watching the Mozzie F16's doing really well against some of the more modern (?) F16's for some time - cool boats for sure.

I've come to F16's from skiffs and ordered my boat two years
ago direct from AHPC in Bendigo. There are atleast 10 Taipans in the USA (all F16's I think....) and the class is really taking off thanks to a domestic F16 (Blade) builder
and a superhuman international class chairman.

Have you investigated going F16 with your Mossie ?


Best To You,


Paul

Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: pkilkenny] #64971
01/19/06 05:36 AM
01/19/06 05:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Quote

There are atleast 10 Taipans in the USA (all F16's I think....)



It was more then that when I last counted them (late 2004). Somewhere between 15 and 20 currently I estimate. Spread out over the whole USA. All sailing with a spinnaker, except one.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: pkilkenny] #64972
01/19/06 01:21 PM
01/19/06 01:21 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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Central California
Paul,

I have another commitment on 2/19, although I'm free to sail on 2/18 and 2/20; only a 3.5 hour drive to Long Beach for me. Any desire to try 2-up sailing?

The Ferrari doesn't have a trailer hitch, so it would be hard to get the boat down there with it; in fact, it's so darn low that a hitch would be dragging on the road anyway. Also, it's pretty hard to sleep in--you know, the normal YC parking lot accomodations.

Come down for a tuning session and we can spend some time on Millerton Lake tuning boats and some time in the surrounding foothills tearing up the pavement.

Speaking of ex-skaters and tats, me and the kids are currently up to our ears in sawdust building a first class halfpipe ramp for the backyard--I guess I'm not an ex-skater anymore. No plans for any tats, though. The F16 logo would make a pretty sweet one, though...right on the shoulder.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: pkilkenny] #64973
01/19/06 07:36 PM
01/19/06 07:36 PM
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G'Day Paul,

Should introduce myself first. The name is Peter. The username is a takeoff on the name of my boat which is Sting.

Haven't gone F16...yet. It is on the agenda for this year over winter. Still weighing the options, since it appears that a Mozzie with kite will whip a Taipan 4.9 without kite, but will be left behind if the Taipan hoists a kite.

So I need to think carefully about which is the right way to go. Kite the Mozzie or get into a different F16. Like I said, my daughter loves Taipans..., so if I can have your free Taipan and undertake the world longest delivery cruise.

BTW, do you remember a couple of years back an Australian teenager, Jessie Martiun sailed solo round the world? His introduction to sailing was when his Dad loaded Jessie and his younger brother onto their Hobie and sailed from Autralia to Papua Newe Guinea. Thus proving that cat sailors are crazy! At least that's the story that goes around down here.

Cheers

Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: ejpoulsen] #64974
01/20/06 12:14 AM
01/20/06 12:14 AM
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pkilkenny Offline OP
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Doc,

I forgot about the lack of a trailer hitch on the Ferrari (damn...) ;but sleeping in the Ferrari isn't a big deal in that part of L.A.. Betcha ten bucks we count atleast three Ferrari's with people passed out in 'em within four blocks of the hotel... um, I mean YC parking lot...

"want to try 2 up sailing ?"

I'll never sail with anyone again in a regatta. I blew a gybe at the last RYC regatta, put a twist in the kit, let the Tornado (damn catamarans) roll us at the weather mark and the other skiff and received an Aussie style blistering from the skip (about twenty years old by the way...).So this week - huge project due at work, wifes birthday, all the usual stresses and strains, but all I keep thinking about is why the *#@@ did i blow that gybe!? Nope, i'll never sail w/ crew again ; just not psychologically sound enough...

I'll call you to plan 18th - 20th...


PK

Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: MozzieBite] #64975
01/20/06 12:24 AM
01/20/06 12:24 AM
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pkilkenny Offline OP
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Mozziebite,

"We don't choose our natures - we're issued them along
with our legs and our lungs"

- Hannibal Lecter-

You'd sail the Taipan home from San Francisco ? You're a kite sailor - go F16 you won't regret it...


PK

Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: MozzieBite] #64976
01/20/06 06:14 AM
01/20/06 06:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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North-West Europe

Hello Peter,

Jesse Martin :

Wasn't that something, I have the documentary of him and lionhard on video, great story about a "can-do" mentality.


Quote

Haven't gone F16...yet. ... Still weighing the options, ... Mozzie with kite will whip a Taipan 4.9 without kite, but will be left behind if the Taipan hoists a kite. So I need to think carefully about which is the right way to go. Kite the Mozzie or get into a different F16. Like I said, my daughter loves Taipans...,



I'll admit that this is not an easy decision for an Aussie sailor ! The Mozzies are having the fleets and good event atmosphere but not the raw speed have you hammer the F18 class on elapsed time if your are a decent sailor. The Taipans having the performance (with some upgrades like the spi) but also the endless bickering and all out resistance to any changes to the design that will see the class dwindle to near extinction. Funny actually, the Taipan design came out of the mozzie design when it decided that not a single upgrade would be introduced in the mozzie. The Taipan class exploded, but now so many people have forgotten their own beginnings and want to do exactly the same as the class that "expelled" the Taipan in the first place. And they expect that this will prevent an F16 growth and prevent losing any sailors to the F16 class, just like the Taipan saw no growth after it left the mozzie class. It is strange dynamic.

My personal opinion is that you should seriously consider the Taipan option if performance and hanging with the big boys in town (F18's, A's etc) when sailing with a spi is your game and you are not unwilling to make a few upgrades to the boat. If only sailing standard Taipan 4.9, then I think you are better of upgrading your Mozzie with a spi kit. Less cost and better all-round performance and enjoyment. Like so many others that have made the transition to kite. I never want to sail without a spi again. That thing is bloody addictive. You will not regret the upgrade on either boat. You will have to go through a learning curve of some time but after that you'll want to use it more and more.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: Wouter] #64977
01/20/06 08:18 AM
01/20/06 08:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 88
South Australia
Phile Offline
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South Australia
Prediction of the extinction of the taipan in Oz is somewhat exaggerated. One just has to look at the recent national title entries: T4.9 (cat + sloop)= 43 boats; Mosquito (cat +sloop)=29. The taipan had the second biggest entry of all cat classes after the A class (48 entries).

Wouter seems to be giving the impression that there are viable fleets of Mosquitos sailing in F16 mode all over the country. That is far from the truth. Adelaide still has a reaonable mosquito fleet but not one with a kite. There maybe half a dozen Mosquito F16 enthusiasts sailing out of various clubs in Victoria, that's about it.

Wouter is also confusing healthy debate within the taipan class with "bickering", particularly when the majority viewpoint does not agree with Wouter's opinions freely given from afar.

Trust your daughter's love of the taipan. I had 8 great years racing with my son on one without a kite. Sure a kite is a challenge and maybe even addictive, but not essential to having fun and still being competitive. This is apparent when viewing the results of the top taipans against F18s and A class in mixed fleet racing.

Phil

Okay let me clearify this [Re: Phile] #64978
01/20/06 10:23 AM
01/20/06 10:23 AM
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Wouter Offline
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Phill Edw. allow me to clearify my post :

I never said that the mozzie class was doing better then the Taipan class (viable fleets etc). I just said that upgrading a mozzie with a spi is better then spending the same amount of money in upgrading to a One-design Taipan without a spi. This is a simple cost-effectiveness weighting.

Phill, it is true that that several mosquito F16's are around and attending events just as much as it is true that you don't even see such numbers of Taipan sailors with a spi. We will not go into detail about why that is. From a spi perspective, while the Taipan design will take to a spi upgrade well, one will find more companions and understanding in the Mosquito group.

In addition I would like to underline that I talked about the extinction of the Taipan One-design, not specifically of the short-term extinction of the Taipan sailing in Oz. As always I look at things from a World perspective, not from the perspective of any local area. I hate to bring it to you but on a world stage the One-design Taipan is a dead as they come. Of the 70 or so Taipans outside of Australia 90 % is flying a spinaker and 100 % have only F16 sailing as a viable option. Australia is the last straw the Taipan OD has, but sales are declining and sailors are moving out of the Taipan class to F18's and A-cats. How many Taipans were present at the last Taipan Worlds ? Now answer the same question with respect to F18's, A-cats or even Hobie 16's.

Indeed I do see taipans sailing for a long time to come, Hell I love my own Taipan to bits, I just don't see the Taipan One Design setup going anywhere in the future or even maintaining its position as part of the AHPC product listing. A pessismitic view ? Yes, you can call it that. I'm just connecting the dots. Hell, last year we even had a well attended Hobie 17 championship ins Oz but that doesn't change the fact that that class is dying as well, without a hope of revival. It is a bit like a guy falling off a tall building and congratulating himself that he is still doing great at each level that he passes. And at those very moments he is, of course, absolutely right. Still ...


Quote

The taipan had the second biggest entry of all cat classes after the A class (48 entries).


That is just nonsense. First the Taipan had 19 (1-up) + 22 (2-up) = 41 entries, not 43, and the Hobie 16 class, with their venue in far away in Western Australia (think rivoli bay) had more entries than the Taipan nationals as well. So at best Taipan is 3rd. And maybe, just maybe a few other classes will claim that their attendence beats your 22 (2-ups) as well as, think F18 although I hear 2005 attendence was down from 34 crews at 2004. But an argument can be had there.


Quote

Wouter is also confusing healthy debate within the taipan class with "bickering", particularly when the majority viewpoint does not agree with Wouter's opinions freely given from afar.



Last discussion was a debate od sorts, all others were bickering where the OD sailors used all the tricks available to shut the discussion down. You know this, I know this. How many times have I not heard that I should shut up as I'm not an Australian sailor even though I'm a Taipan boat owner. Apparently the Taipan class is only there for Australian sailors. Your comment about " ... Wouter's opinions freely given from afar ..." is yet again right up this ally. Don't look at the content of his statements, ohh no, the fact that these are coming "from afar" is sufficient grounds to ignore them completely. Well, you guys did exactly that over the last view years and the Taipan One-design class outside of Australia is more dead now then the dinosaurs. I'm sorry, to be so reality based on this but that is the simple truth. By being close-minded and totally focussed on the Aussie scene the class pretty much garanteed that the Taipan OD had absolutely no chance of making it outside of Oz. This is going to break you up further down the road. Penny wise, pound foolish.

Now I totally accept that others will have different opinions, that is to be expected and to be accepted. But I do invite everybody to look at the bigger picture and look at it from the builders/suppliers perspective. Look at economical viability. A class can be the best thing on earth since sliced bread, but when it single supplier drops out because it is not viable to them to sell the design anymore then the class is a dead man walking.

Maybe the supplier is still selling enough of these boats (to only the Aussie market) this year (Not sure that it is), maybe even next year. But with the decline of cat sailing in Australia right and without a chance of reviving the sales (of the OD version) abroad it is, in my opinion, just a matter of time before the sales drop below the threshold. Maybe the introduction of a really competitive design is all that is needed to tip the scales. I don't know, but walking so close to the line any small hick-up can tip the scales. And that is what the Taipan 4.9 class did wrong. They never diversified their markets, thus building up sufficient demand and sales so that a domestic (Australian) hick-up will not trip the class altogether. That the class would always survive on other regions in the world. Currently the class can only survive on the Oz region and that will now never be different in the future. I call that a gamble.

Some say that they will win the gamble. I say that it is more like a recurring gamble that you can't loose a single time. And there will always come a time, sooner or later, at which you will loose it. That in my book is the definition of "just a matter of time"


Quote

Trust your daughter's love of the taipan. I had 8 great years racing with my son on one without a kite. Sure a kite is a challenge and maybe even addictive, but not essential to having fun and still being competitive. This is apparent when viewing the results of the top taipans against F18s and A class in mixed fleet racing.



But I will end on an up-beat. Taipan is an excellent boat and design, I agree with Phill Edw. on that. That spi is not essential but well worth the extra expense. Also this essay on the future of the Taipan One design setup is not directly linked to the question that spawned this tangent. So I will propose to move along and just let the future determine who was right to wrong.

Best regards,

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 01/20/06 10:33 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Okay let me clearify this [Re: Wouter] #64979
01/21/06 01:00 AM
01/21/06 01:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 88
South Australia
Phile Offline
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South Australia
Wouter

I stand corrected on the taipan Nationals entry numbers, and I forgot (easy to do) about the Hobie 16 nationals way over in Perth.

Can't disagree with you, either, about the general demise of the taipan OD class overseas either. The facts are obvious to all of us, not the least AHPC.

AHPC can certainly improve the marketing and general support of the class in Australia.

Still, if someone locally is contemplating moving into a taipan, I will always encourage that move.

Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: pkilkenny] #64980
02/07/06 01:01 AM
02/07/06 01:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
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Phil,

Good to see you're planning on attending the ABYC Midwinters again. Wish you have better luck than last year! I'm scrounging for a spinny-monkey (again...when will it ever end?!?) for the Tboat. Just got back from the Miami Olympic Class Regatta & Tornado North Americans...so I've got lots of new tips/tactics to put to use.

Cheers!
Mike Dobbs


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: Tornado] #64981
02/07/06 09:45 AM
02/07/06 09:45 AM

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Anonymous
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I would be interested in heading out on an F16. There are three of us up here in Rochester that are considering home-building F16s. I personally am going to decide between an F16, a Hobie Tiger and a monohull. We will be all over California March 4th (San Diego) through March 12th (San Francisco).

Matt

Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: Tornado] #64982
02/07/06 01:35 PM
02/07/06 01:35 PM
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pkilkenny Offline OP
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Quote
Phil,

Good to see you're planning on attending the ABYC Midwinters again. Wish you have better luck than last year! I'm scrounging for a spinny-monkey (again...when will it ever end?!?) for the Tboat. Just got back from the Miami Olympic Class Regatta & Tornado North Americans...so I've got lots of new tips/tactics to put to use.

Cheers!
Mike Dobbs


Mike ,

My hope is that yours is the only "Tornado" on the water this year !! See
you at the ABYC bar fri. night or else crossing tacks on the beat to the finish on Sat. ( ha)...

Phil (or Paul )

Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !! [Re: ] #64983
02/07/06 01:47 PM
02/07/06 01:47 PM
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[quote]I would be interested in heading out on an F16. There are three of us up here in Rochester that are considering home-building F16s. I personally am going to decide between an F16, a Hobie Tiger and a monohull. We will be all over California March 4th (San Diego) through March 12th (San Francisco).

Matt,

March 5th, i'm sailing a regatta in the San Francisco Bay out of the world famous Richmond Yacht Club. I've just enough 3mm dyneema left to rig you a pair of trap lines ! Seriously, i've got a second harness if your itinerary allows !


Paul


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