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Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: MauganN20] #66496
02/13/06 05:07 PM
02/13/06 05:07 PM
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fin. Offline
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This is a very conservative Republican area, the "leg I have to stand on" is the apparent ground swell of voter resentment. My guess is that this increase will be rolled back.

Florida is growning at a phenomenal rate. We do not need to subsidizes anyone, let alone the uber-wealthy. We have a 2.5% unemployment rate, considered full employment. The problem here is a surplus of jobs and it is increasingly serious. A "starter home" in this area is around $200,000. Waterbug is maybe 35 miles South and I would be afraid to guess what s "starter home" is in Collier County which depends on us for blue collar labor.

Locally, the aggregate demand for housing far outways the economic benefit derived from the wealthiest few. Simply put, we just don't need to cater to them, Sucks don't it!

Last edited by Tikipete; 02/13/06 05:12 PM.
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Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: fin.] #66497
02/13/06 05:18 PM
02/13/06 05:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
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I feel bad for the poor schlepps in Iowa, who are paying more for insurance due to losses from wildfire (CA), earthquake (CA), tornados (KA), Floods (LA, TX) and hurricanes (FL, LA, MS, TX).

If they weren't coughing up dough, our insurance would easily be 10x higher down here.

And consider yourself lucky. Median home price in my town is now $500,000 for a 2 bdr, 2 bth (no garage). Interest rate hikes will change this for the better, though...


Jay

Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: waterbug_wpb] #66498
02/13/06 05:31 PM
02/13/06 05:31 PM
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I understand your point, it is valid. Nevertheless, if through applied political pressure I can reduce my premium and, more importantly, slow its certain rise I will do so. Not saying it's fair, only probable!

btw The last I heard Naples was pretty generous in allowing cats on the beach.

Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: waterbug_wpb] #66499
02/13/06 06:01 PM
02/13/06 06:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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I feel bad for the poor schlepps in Iowa, who are paying more for insurance due to losses from wildfire (CA), earthquake (CA), tornados (KA), Floods (LA, TX) and hurricanes (FL, LA, MS, TX).


At least with the floods it's only those who pay flood insurance. Regular homeowner's insurance doesn't cover that, and if you live in a flood zone generally your only option is to use the Federal backed polices from NFIP. Ooops, there's the pesky gov't helping out again. But anyways, only the people with that kind of insurance will take an increase for the flood losses - I'll be one of them. Boat U.S. did sent me a note about my boat insurance going up due to those losses however, but they some point in that Isabel whacked the Chesapeake. One trick for homeowner's insurance if you're in a reduced act of God area is pick a company that does not insure in the augmented act of God areas. Eerie is one such company, losses in those areas don't translate into higher premiums.

On the point that this thread was about - I find it fun to mix it up with the keel boats, and really enjoyed being on the line for the Annapolis to Oxford race this past year. Pretty exciting to see the big fast PHRF boats, even more exciting to run down guys who spend more on one sail than I did for my whole boat. Avoid the wind shadows, and don't for a second think they will alter their lines even if you have the right of way. Mixing the small and big boats together is something I'm interested in seeing work even from the multi perspective - CRAC now has a "maxi-cat" class for the big boats, and so far they run the same course as the rest of us. Issues such as draft and room for a 19' wide boat in the midst of smaller ones is interesting.

Tad - going to TAYC any time you want to sail is nice for you and the folks with contacts, but doesn't help anybody who wants to join the sport and doesn't have those contacts or the scratch to join such a club in the first place. Doesn't help grow the base of sailors, and contributes to the sailing as a rich person's game notion.

Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: Keith] #66500
02/13/06 06:21 PM
02/13/06 06:21 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
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Tad - going to TAYC any time you want to sail is nice for you and the folks with contacts, but doesn't help anybody who wants to join the sport and doesn't have those contacts or the scratch to join such a club in the first place. Doesn't help grow the base of sailors, and contributes to the sailing as a rich person's game notion.


Keith, the whole point of that tirade was to point out that even though some areas may seem "closed for public use", a simple act of making personal contact with the person(s) responsible for the property can get you a long way.

I didn't name-drop any of my friends' names, and I'm almost positive that they didn't remember me from 15 years ago

Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: ] #66501
02/13/06 06:49 PM
02/13/06 06:49 PM
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Matt:

You might also try volunteering as crew, locally they always need warm bodies. Of course, building personal relationships isn't gonna hurt. It's hard to say no to a friend!

Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: fin.] #66502
02/13/06 09:10 PM
02/13/06 09:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
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This is why I cant wait to move back to Puerto Rico. Miles and MILES of virgin beach access.

Insurance rates are much much lower.

Property tax are stuck in the early 40's

Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: Robi] #66503
02/14/06 12:35 AM
02/14/06 12:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 217
Palm Harbor, FL, USA
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Lance Offline
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Palm Harbor, FL, USA
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This is why I cant wait to move back to Puerto Rico. Miles and MILES of virgin beach access.

Insurance rates are much much lower.

Property tax are stuck in the early 40's


I would think so with hundreds of millions of US taxpayers dollars supporting the Commonwealth. Of course there are no taxes coming back to the US from Puerto Rico. No offense, but I think PR either should become a state and contribute or not receive the benefits that it does.
That being said, I'm sure the sailing is awesome there


Lance
Taipan 5.7 USA 182
Palm Harbor, FL
Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: Lance] #66504
02/14/06 01:33 AM
02/14/06 01:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
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This is why I cant wait to move back to Puerto Rico. Miles and MILES of virgin beach access.

Insurance rates are much much lower.

Property tax are stuck in the early 40's


I would think so with hundreds of millions of US taxpayers dollars supporting the Commonwealth. Of course there are no taxes coming back to the US from Puerto Rico. No offense, but I think PR either should become a state and contribute or not receive the benefits that it does.
That being said, I'm sure the sailing is awesome there
Yep you are right, but with all due respect, what does your post have anything to do with the thread? Other than your last sentence? You just needed to throw that out?

Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: Robi] #66505
02/14/06 08:17 AM
02/14/06 08:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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What does any of this taxation and beach access have to do with this thread?


Jake Kohl
Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #66506
02/14/06 09:06 AM
02/14/06 09:06 AM
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North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Btw: Wouter, you do know that our american friends have the impression that socialism is the same as communism? Which it is not, and that we have right wing politicians just as badass as their GOP's over here..



Yep, that is exactly why it is always so easy to sting them with such remarks. And of course the Right Wing politicians of the US kind that we do have overhere are not in power, except in Denmark and Italy. They are just as much on the fringe as the pure communists, the exception here being Italy again.

Wouter






Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: fin.] #66507
02/14/06 09:13 AM
02/14/06 09:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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I don't need to come out there, I believe you !

You want is more fun overhere as well. The government owns the dunes and flood planes as well, there is hardly any civilian building in those area's. And any town that happened to be right on the coast line for several hundreds of years has a duty to maintain public access to the beaches, FREE OF CHARGE ! That is where we all pay higher taxes for ! Others get excellent football field, I easily accessible beaches. The soccer players pays partly for my ramp and I pay partly for his pitch. On average this works out equally beneficial for all. And THAT is socialism, looking beyond one owns direct interests and understand that "common good" things can only be maintained if individual groups work together. The real great thing about is that you don't need to show party membership or a little red book to proof you are worthy of making use of the common good stuff. Best of both worlds, I call that.

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: MauganN20] #66508
02/14/06 09:22 AM
02/14/06 09:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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I'm glad you live in a socialist utopia over there. Keep it over there and we wont have any problems ok?



I'm happy to keep my socialist utopia out of the USA if the USA will keep their "might makes right" and "cut throat capitalism" out of the rest of the world.

Some hard times coming ahead for you, Your Katrina reconstruction program just hired two of our more prominent socialist water management guru's to analyse what went wrong and what needs to be done right.

I hear there are some interesting lectures on this katrina disaster at the watermanagement faculty that is across the street of the faculty I work for.

I'll bet maugan has either just fainted or is blowing steam from his ears, right now.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 02/14/06 09:23 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: Wouter] #66509
02/14/06 10:10 AM
02/14/06 10:10 AM

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I have forwarded this thread on to our racing guy as I am not making the final decision. Thank you for all your input it will help him. I will keep you updated with what we decide.

As far as befriending and crewing for monohullers. I do both on Wednesday nights.

Thanks for throwing in the socialism vs capitalism debate. Nice touch.

Matt

Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: fin.] #66510
02/14/06 11:07 AM
02/14/06 11:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
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btw The last I heard Naples was pretty generous in allowing cats on the beach.


They're okay with the boat on the beach, BUT, you can't keep it overnight (unless you're a city resident and pay for a spot), and you can't park your trailer anywhere near the beach. Works great if you know someone near the beach that you can drop the trailer, but it's tough if you don't and have to hoof it a mile or so back to the beach.

Taken my old boat out a couple of times, and had a ball. Flat beaches, low surf, and nice water temps.


Jay

Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: ] #66511
02/14/06 11:40 AM
02/14/06 11:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Quote

As far as befriending and crewing for monohullers. I do both on Wednesday nights.


Matt - When Art Stevens brought the Fast and Fun program through Galesville a number of years back, his one piece of advice for dealing with the clubs and other sailing groups that may not view us favorably was to "conquer from within" - join up, infiltrate, change minds, percepions and votes. Sage advice, looks like you already have that started with your Wednesday nights and other efforts. Good luck with it all!

Also, sorry for participating in the thread hijacking...


Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: Wouter] #66512
02/14/06 03:48 PM
02/14/06 03:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
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Austin Lake MI
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Austin Lake MI
OK OK that's it!

If it were not for the USA'S "might" most europeans wouldn't have the "right" to govern their own county. The Netherlands, along with several ungrateful countries, would be either part of Germany (twice over)or part of the Soviet block. Ask the Poles and the Slavs how well that worked out. Until countries pay for their own defence, in a significant manner, they are no more then childeren living off their parents generosity.

As far as "cut throat captilism" goes. The very standard of living that you cherish is due to US capitalism. Most new drugs are developed and paid for by the citizens of the United States. Why, because there is no fiscal incentive to develop drugs outside of the US (for the most part). Until the citizens of socialist countries start to pay for the R&D required to develop new drugs and other technologies I would keep the critisism of capitalism down.

Oh yes, "cut throat capitalism" goes beyond new product development. Ask the French, who bailed them out in the 1950's when the French Franc collapsed..The USA! When there is a disaster in ANY part of the world who is there first and contributes the most...The USA. Who is the primary supporter of the United Nations, the throne of Socialism..the USA

The funny part is the technology you will use to respond was developed, perfected, and exported to the world from the USA!

John

Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: jes9613] #66513
02/14/06 05:43 PM
02/14/06 05:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Er.... No, actually the computer (and the internet) were British inventions.....


John Alani
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Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: Jalani] #66514
02/14/06 06:19 PM
02/14/06 06:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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Atlanta
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Er.... No, actually the computer (and the internet) were British inventions.....


Do we really need to remind you about the US innovation and US companies that brought the internet to the point that it's at today? Little US companies like Microsoft, Netscape, AOL, Intel, Cisco, EMC, IBM, and do I really need to go on?





Re: racing with both monohulls and multihulls [Re: jes9613] #66515
02/14/06 06:28 PM
02/14/06 06:28 PM
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Humm, I seem to remember that the netherlands weren't part of the first world war, so don't know exactly about "twice over"

Come to think of it were would we be without american help during the 80 year (rebellion) war with Spain. The three Dutch-English wars during the 17th century, or even the fight with the murderous HORDES from the east. From The Huns (right after birth of christ) to the Mongols somewhere around the first millenium. Not forgetting the Vandals, the Vicogoths or even the Viking invasions. As well as the various clashes of the 19th century. Come to think of it the Romain empire itself came to a end in the Dutch marshes and the German Forrests. If it were not for the invaluable contributions of the Americans at all of these times we would not be a Dutch people at all. Let alone have won the right to govern ourselfs and this land we call the Netherlands ...

Ehh, wait a minute, the americans of those time were still wearing bear skins and feathers and dancing around a bon-fire.

So listen up now. Foreign powers have invaded, conquered and lost the Netherlands due to local rebellion many times over in the history of our people. Each time the Dutch identity survived and thrived. We have both been weak at times as well as been a world spanning superpower, in addition to that we've been the financier of the American revolution itself and have sheltered the very pilgrim fathers from prosecution before they decided to sail to the new world. Haven't seen much thanks for those contributions lately.

If you think that a more permanent Nazi or Sovjet occupation would have ended our claim to these lands or killed off our identity then you are seriously mistaken. In time, we would have again fought ourselfs free and would have re-established control of our own destiny as we had done 10's of times in the past 2 millenia of Dutch history. All the while being surrounded by big powerhouses to all sides (England, Germany, France and at a time Danes/Vikings).

Thanks goes TO YOUR FATHER OR GRANDFATHER for putting in a contribution that rather soon shedded our yoke in 1945; I write contribution as I seem to remember large formations of Poles; Canadians, Brits, Free Dutch, Free French and what not else in this endeavour. But don't ever make the mistake of thinking that YOU personally can derive any credit from this. You didn't do any fighting. And don't think that your larger American family singlehandedly achieved something that wasn't coming our way in due time anyway. And your weren't defending any European liberties in Korea, Vietnam, Grenada or even Iraq (I refrain from giving you the full listing)

This world, and the nations or peoples in it, are alot older then 1776; during that time many sacrifices have been made in favour of the survival of a nation. In this light it will be wise to remember the modesty of your contributions and the travesty of your own failings.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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