Bill:

I've also managed to get hold of a set of plans for ply construction that is not completely out of the question, though it is less desirable.

Pete,
The Flyer has a front mast hinge, so it hinges forward and you stand between the hulls to raise and lower it. I'm using a Flyer mast base, so my mast will hinge forward too.

The mast on an Acat is so light its very easy to lift, you dont need the leverage of standing on the tramp.

I'm pretty sure the XJ hinges forward, not sure about the the A2.

Most A cats support the boat on the trailer by the beams.

Bill

Colin,
I just looked at the pics of Phil Kinders crushed Flyer it looks like carbin inside skin, corecell foam and kevlar outside skin, with gelcoat.

Bill

What design would that be? Pure ply or ply+carbon?
Just curious..

If you dont really want to build a boat but are thinking about it to save some money, dont build! Buy a used one (go to the bank, sell something or take an extra job to finance it) and go sailing instead.
Look at this one, not min. weight, but still..
E-bay

Speaking about A's. Anybody know what competitive crew weights are?


Is there more information about this A-cat? http://www.ashbysails.com/boats.html

Rolf:

All the used boats I've been able to locate are too far away, too old or both.

Pete:

Pete Melvin suggested I get Bob Hall to make me a spar based on my weight and sailmaker choice and have it sent to Performance Cat before they build A2. I am going with a Glaser sail because they won 6 out of 8 of the last N/A's and the Worlds. Here is a site for some A cat trailer ideas.
http://www.acatsnw.com/trailer/trailers.html I think I will get a Trailex double stack so I can mount A cat on when I want to take both 17 and A cat.

Doug

Hi Bill,

> it looks like carbin inside skin, corecell foam
> and kevlar outside skin, with gelcoat.

Ta, you just saved me from smashing one of the hulls to find out; vinylester resin too according to the web site... So, thus armed with such technical knowledge I expect to go a lot faster on Sunday...

Post deleted by Wouter

Thanks Wouter, but it's too late for #6

For some tricks stabilizing your mast in a blow go and do a search on the F16 forum. We've covered this topic several times overthere.

We all keep our masts up overhere on the beach, for 6 months without exception. F16's and A's

Wouter

AHPC late 2005 ?

Most probably a full kevlar laminate hull.

Bill was looking at an older hull

Wouter

Ok Here is Wouters post from the F16 Forum

I actually did a wrote up on securing the mast a while back, try a search on the forum. By now we have 7002 postings and I don't exactly remember when I wrote it down.

But in summary. The mast on the Taipan is not a stiff pole by any stretch of the imagination. You'll need to secure it very well for it to survive any harsh winds. Problem is not strength but resonance. Even a mild wind with the right exiting frequency can seriously vibrated that mast.

However I found that some very simple mods can make your mast totally resistant to anything the wind and weather can throw at it. I've tested it for many months out here on the beach at my local club and we had a few storms since then. Of course the platform needs to be tied down very well and rather tight, absolutely no slack may be in the tying down. The platform is only 55 kg and if it has room to move about then it will dig itself into more room and finally escape.

The mast when supported with only the three stays has a resonance frequency that is very common in normal wind patterns. Very bad for mast up storage. However if you use your mainsail halyard and spi halyard to stabilize the top of your mast in addition to using your mast rotation and boom to stabilize the rotation then you mast will stand straigh and still as a telegraph pole. By stiffening up your mast like this the resonance frequency has been place well outside the range that are encountered in wind of any type.

Roughtly

-1- tie teh start of your mainsail halyard off on the mast; the other end (which goes up and through the small block at the top) you tie off to the end of the boom near the outhaul line. Use the outhaul line to prevent the halyard from sliding along the boom towards the mast.

-2- Now use your mainsail traveller control line to pull the boom down. You do this but graping a loop (between the cleat and the car) and throwing this over the end of the boom. Now pull the traveller line tight and cleat it. Your mainsail halyard is now tight and pulls the top of the mast slightly backward. Also the boom and car are now centred and can't move to either side.

-3- Now pull in your rotation limiter towards the boom thus securing the mast in the way of rotation as the boom is well secured by the mainsail traveller line and cleat

-4- If you have a spinnaker setup then. Tie both ends of the spi halyard off to one another and pull the halyard through its cleat till the spi hayard is tight and its acts like a second foresay. This will go all the way up to the spi gate on the mast. Now the mast is completely secured in the fore and aft plane and the fixed rotation will prevent oscilations over its minor axis (side to side)



When things get really dicy then use the trapeze line to secure the whole boat to the ground in addition to the ties on the platform itself. If the mast can't move than the the platform can't either. I have adjustable trapeze line with a jam cleat and I use them to put some tension on the trapeze lines so the boat has absolutely no play anywhere.

I only use two tie downs for my platform. Coming up next to the hulls and I tie them off to my side stays. I then pull a peice of tough foam underneath the lines to get some real tension in them and to prevent the lines from rubbing on my hulls and layer of paint.

In the past I used to stabilize my spreaders with an extra line as well but found that that really wasn't necessary.

So my advice =

- 2 ties on the sidestays.
- Main halyard, boom, mainsail traveller line, mast rotation and spi halyard triangles to further secure the mast
- when required additional tie down using the 2 or 4 trapeze lines to fixed points on the ground neary

Fixed points in the ground must be really secure as the wind can pull out alot of simple stakes or poles. Easiest and best is just a planck or pole that is burried horinzontally at say 2 to 3 feet deep. Tie a line to the middle of it and use that as a secure point.

Good luck,

Wouter


--------------------
Wouter Hijink
Taipan F16 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands

Pete:

If you decide to get a A2, Pete Melvin suggested I contact Ben Hall and have him make a spar based on my weight and sailmaker and have it sent to Performance Cat before boat was put together and add any extra support needed for a spinnaker.

Doug

Colin's new Flyer is beautiful. It looks like he got it with the glued beam option and the execution of that looks quite good.

AHPC, A2, and Bimare are vinylester boats. Vinylester is stronger than polyester, a bit weaker than epoxy (but less toxic than epoxy). I think AHPC is using Nomex core based on the skin imprint I saw on my Mk. V but it may have been different for the Flyer. Marstrom and A2 both currently use Nomex.

I think first Flyers built by AHPC were all carbon but their website now lists construction as carbon and kevlar. My guess is Greg Goodall is now using an outer kevlar skin for impact resistance and inner carbon skin for stiffness and strength. My previous Mk. V was all Kevlar construction and had more more bulkheads than the Flyer (which has only 2). I don't think it gave away anything in platform stiffness.

Marstrom platform (epoxy pre-preg, Nomex core, autoclave cure) is probably the strongest construction. Others are vacuum bagged with the resin infusion system used on the A2.

Many have thought the best competitive weight range for the A-cat is 160-185 lbs but I've seen light sailors like Pease Glaser finish quite well in 14-16 knots of wind and bigger sailors like Woody Cope and Doug Graf finish quite well in light air. It's still about time in the boat and getting your rig and sail trim numbers right no matter what the platform. All of the recent platforms including the A2, Marstrom, Flyer, XJ, Auscat Mk. V, and Auscat Mk. IV are capable of winning races which is a good thing for the class. We don't see any significant performance improvements in hull design in the near future. We think more performance evolution (that will be subtle at best) will continue with sail planforms and foil plans and shapes.

If you get into the class and want to win races, you still have to get out and sail the boat and sail the boat a lot .

Bob Hodges
A2 USA 230

Bob:

Thanks very much, hope to be on the water soon.

Bob:

Was nice meeting you this weekend. Yea I can't wait to get the A2 and get time on the water. Hope to see you at Deep South, if not maybe Wayward winds.

Doug Snell

Hi Bob,

> Colin's new Flyer is beautiful. It looks like he
> got it with the glued beam option and the execution
> of that looks quite good.

Piet Saarberg did that. He imports the hulls then glues them using a custom made jig. The boat has Saarberg foils and hull tweaks done by AHPC to take his narrower dagger boards; I believe his rudders are slightly thinner too.

I've always liked the idea of an A Class and it is everything I'd hoped for. I work pretty strange hours, so I'm looking forward to the Summer when I can go sailing in the day without searching around for a crew...

Thanks for the info...

Here some updates :



Full kevlar hulls are produced significantly more lately. There are various reasons for that. That is all I can say at this moment.





AHPC has been using infusion for a while now. Nacra makes a big fuss about their boats being the first to use resin infusion (especially with the F18 infusion) but they are just wrong. Several other were already using this methode even in the F18 class.


WOuter

Pete

BIMARE sails are made by "Bim sail", the internal sail-loft of BIMARE. Differently from other catamaran builders such as Hobie Cat, which have sails made by "external" sailmakers with their logo, BIMARE has been producing for over 30 years all the mainsails and asymmetrics which fit its range of unirigged boats "in house".
Have a look at: http://www.bimare.net/saile.htm
The development of Bim sails is carried out by Valerio Petrucci, the elder son of BIMARE founder, and other top notch Italian A catters.
Moreover let me add that they are not too bad:
in 2005 they got a 6th at the A Class Worlds, a 1st at the Italian National, a 3rd at the German Nationals.....

Colin,

Regarding the pictures of your boat, the tramp looks extremely clean. How are you leading the tails of the rotator control and downhaul? In the pictures, it looks like they are led under the trampoline. Mine are kept on the top of the boat which is not as clean.

Again, beautiful boat!

Bob Hodges