A lovely George Washington Day Regatta at Lake Eustis this weekend with Waves (Rick and Mary and lots of friends). There was a huge fleet of 38 shiny new Melges 17s scows with highly roached mains (no flat tops yet tho) on Aussie 18 highly prebent round masts (no mast rotation yet), & colored spinnakers. After racing was over Saturday the wind came up to about 13-14 knots for the run home, so I went Melges hunting.

With a lot of lake left, I caught 3 of them duelling all out with chutes up trying to run over each other. There was a great breeze for the Wild Thing- and it worked. With maybe a 6+ knot speed differential, I rolled over all of them on the same course with 150 square feet of sail vs their 3 sails, and lots of wetted surface. Maybe not fair, but... It almost made up for being whupped by Woodie Cope again.

Plus,I think the Melges is over 300 lbs and needs a crew.

I anybody wants to get a real feel for the speed difference between dinghies/mono's and cats then go and that a look at the Australian VUC yardsticks. A 49-er skiff (with 32 sq. mtr. kite !) is about a fast as a .... Prindle 16/hobie 16.

98 % of the monon's/skiffs is slower then the 49-er

Wouter

There were only 15 Melges 17's at the race. You might have confused the herd of M16's as part of the 17 fleet. The 16's had white sails. The 17's had gold mylar, kevlar, unobtanium.

You rolled 'em? Congratuations! How much handicap did you give your boat that weighs 165 lbs and one skipper to one that weighs almost twice as much with a skipper and one crew? If you wanted to compare speed it would have been better to have found experienced Eric Hood (factory), Mary Ann Ward (Melbourne, FL), or Art Brereton (Michigan?) alone on the 17.

The Melges 17's hit the market this time last year when the first demo 17 was shown at Lake Eustis. Seventy Melges 17's have been sold in it's first year. My new Melges 17 weighs 300 lbs. The mast is around 16 lbs. A crew is helpful but several at the regatta decided it could be single handed; not with the fastest spin sets, but singlehanding would not be difficult.

To be fair, the owners at the regatta this past weekend, with the exception of only a few boats, were BRAND SPANKING NEW to the boat and the others had not sailed the boat much, if any, at all since they purchased it in it's first year (in the frigid climate of the boat's home ground in the midwest). I talked to four owners who had not been out for the first time until last Friday. I would have been one of the brand new skippers with a clueless crew had my recovering fractured left foot not kept our new 17 in the garage at home in Orlando. My total time on the boat since it's purchase this past December has been a total of two twenty minute naps taken on the fordeck in the garage.

It takes a lot of courage to rig any boat for the first time on Friday, 900 miles from home, and to race on Saturday with an inexperienced crew of any age handling most of the 480 sq. ft. (total) of sail at the pointy end. So, what you had were mostly brand new owners fleeing the frozen north for a weekend who were happy to be on the water with their new-smelling boat with as green a crew, too. I wouldn't gloat too much about running on an A-Cat past that crowd.

A couple of the 17's were crewed with a very young son on each; eight and thirteen yrs. old. My wife and I talked to a couple of the little guys. (She figured if they could do it, then she could, too.) It was funny seeing her walk up to a boy half her height asking, "Do you handle the chute?". His Dad answered, "It's his first time." There were some spunky female crew out there, as well.

One young crew who said he would rather have been wakeboarding referred to the catamarans as, "That 70's Show. My dad had one." I'd call that a verbal wind shadow that reeled you in.

Melges has been coming out with some very new product: witness the 17 and the 32. "Time on the boat" seems to be missing from the discussion when Melges enters conversation. The Melges 32 owners took a bad rap at Key West Race Week for not going out when everyone's stick was breaking. (Were they smart or sober...or both?) They should have been given credit for admitting that they were new to v. expensive boat and would rather keep it in one piece until they had some time on the boat and until the new crews had jelled. When rich sailors drag pieces of boat back to the dock, a smart new owner takes notice. Knowing when NOT to go out is just plain smart.

Melges is one boat builder that has introduced new product for sailors that don't have a ton of money in the bank. Melges are a little pricey for their size but I can attest that you definitely get what you pay for.

Give the new owners at least a couple of seasons to get to know the boat before passing judgement on the performance of either the crew or the boat. And what are you doing out there in 5-10 hunting scows to pass? That's pathetic.

I think A new Melges 17 costs about the same as a new Inter 20, can you imagine if you had smoked by them (even faster) on a new Inter 20??

But you mentioned the real attraction of most dinghy racing, they had 38 boats. The 17 is new, they get even bigger numbers on the older Scows. It is not often we get that many of one type cat on the line. I'm sure it was their Midwinters or something, wasn't it? I know you A cats had about 40 down in the Keys for your midwinters, a great turnout, but usually we don't see their numbers.

I was surprised they didn't put a couple trapezes on the Melges 17.

Whew...nerve be strucketh.

(Jake. You're so bad.)

New Melges17: $15,000 including painted trailer. Melges.com

Some of the new 17 owners were nice folks who knew they weren't going to look good. So what? Intimidation and the perception of arcane sailing rules keep a lot of newbies from participating and even more from buying a sailboat in the first place.

The trapeze question is one that comes up about the 17 and, I'm only guessing, that the target market owners are tired of traps. Melges was very thoughtful to hit a segment of the market that would be not only moving up from another scow but also those of us who have been beach catted to death. I don't mean that to sound too harsh. I love multihulls but life is short. Do something different for a change. What else is out there with a big rag that can be as much a rush? I can fly a hull but planing is a hoot while seemingly on a ragged edge. 480 sq. ft. on a few sq. ft. of lightweight hull sounds pretty good, too.

I don't think you can learn much from "racing" against other boats on the way to the course or on the way back to the beach after races. Especially if they don't even know you are trying to race them, since you are on a completely different kind of boat.

P.S. I thought it would have been interesting if the A-Class cats had been on the same course with the Scows and the Melges 17's. Then we could have seen better what the comparative speeds are.

For my part, my apologies. I've sailed the M-16 and M-20. Both were very fine boats.

Basically, I like anything with sails! The multihull/monohull thing is like chocolate and vanilla.

I do most of my sailing on the Gulf of Mexico, where the wind can go from 0 to 35+ in an instant. In that extreme, my favorite boat is a Catalina 30! No lie!

Thats hilarious!

The 12-year-old grandson of one of our Wave sailors was visiting from up North. His grandmother got him a crewing job on a Melges 17. This child had never been on a sailboat before in his life.

Saturday night after the racing he said, "There are so many different strings to pull for all kinds of different things. And that big sail kept falling in the water." (Referring to the spinnaker.)

On Sunday the Melges guy was looking for a different crew, but the total novice kid who sailed with him on Saturday seems to be very enthusiastic about his whole experience. And that's good.

Mary, why aren't there more Opti age kids sailing Waves? I remember when the Wave first came out, they took it to an Opti regatta, put some kids on it, two at a time, they LOVED it, loved the speed, loved all the room and having a friend with them! I expected it would eventually replace the Opti as a great kid training boat. And what happened to that Fast is Fun US Sailing Multihill program?

Also, could the Wave be fitted with a single trap or would the mast not take the load?

Oh for the love of gawd can we please stop comparing mono's to multi's!

"I don't think you can learn much from "racing" against other boats on the way to the course or on the way back to the beach after races. Especially if they don't even know you are trying to race them"


when there are 2 boats on the water...there is a race...

Melges are fun boats, but they arent catamarans...

Why are kids not on Waves?
Because the majority of "Yacht Club Kids", are kids with parents that own a monohull. My son will start on an Opti this year at 7 yrs old. He went out twice last year on an Opti, but was a little small for it. I thinl he's ready this year though. Not quite ready for a Wave but that will certainly be next.

In my humble opinion, it is not a matter of "comparing" for brag purposes. It's a matter of setting up races for boats of comparable speeds and sailing styles, regardless of how many hulls they have.

I wouldn't care if I was a roach on a popsicle stick. If I'm out there floating on something without a motor I'm having a good day.

mary:

You go girl !!! I had a ball this summer sailing on a real momoslug. Catalina 22 Sport, but we kicked butt one elapsed time except against Stars in high wind. 1 1st and 2 2nd's.

Doug

Wouter--SShhhhh...those skiff guys think they're the cat's meow and faster that a speeding bullet. Don't burst their bubble that they're slower than some of the oldest cat designs around.

I owned various beachcats for years. Then bought a 30' Jeanneau monohull in the late 80's - wanted to do some bluewater sailing. Owned the boat for 9 years, sailed to Mexico 3 times, raced it some, kids grew up on it, enjoyed the boat immensely, then went back to beachcats. I'll never own a monohull again. Life is too short to sail around at 6 knots. Speed and comfort are inversely proportional on a monohull. My next cruiser will be a trimaran, something along the Farrier line!

The saying goes....
"Show me something that floats, I'll show you a boat, Show me two things that float, I'll show you a race"

Just my 2 cents.....

I grew up sailing on the family monohull, and only recently sold it. But the family always had the desire for a multi. My wife couldn't stand the mono, heeling and going 6-7 knots max didn't cut it. She's enjoyed the cats, fast and relatively flat and less of the motion that brings on seasickness. The F-27 is awesome, easily reaching speeds into the mid teens and I haven't flown the spin yet. And yes, any time two boats are on the water it's a race, and the loser usually has a bunch of reasons why they fell behind. Can't ever see a mono in my future again either, but I'm with the rest in what matters is being on the water - that comes first, preferences as to what gets me there come second.

"That 70's Show" - pretty funny, even more so considering how long the scows have been racing. The M17 is just a newer scow, so shouldn't that be part of "That 20's Show"? Heck, the kid's Grandfather probably raced a scow.

But it does show different perceptions (and perceptions may as well be reality) - cats are still stuck with the opinions people have about them from the 70's regardless of design updates, whilst an update of an even older boat type is fresh and exciting.

The M32 thing at KW is interesting, the opinions weren't that favorable on the SA forum of a boat that cost that much that couldn't handle those conditions. Not all boats there were breaking rigs. By the way, there was also much hand-wringing on the Farrier/Corsair sites about the F/C-28r class bailing on the last race due to the conditions - people were afraid it would send the wrong message to the sailing world about the boats and the sailors.