I'm an ex-Laser racer, who is itching to get back into sailing - cat style!

I'll be sailing in Austin, Texas. Here is my wish list:
1) fast, well performing boat
2) capable of racing (with local fleets and districts)
3) capable of single handing
4) possible to sail "tuned down" for wife or girlfriend
5) fairly easy to set up - I want to be able to go for a sail after work without rigging for an hour

So, I would LIKE an F16 boat, but they seem hard to find and there is not much in the way of local fleets. So I'm thinking - Hobie 16? Hobie Tiger? 5.5? P16? Help!

I am new to the game, but depending on your budget, I think a H16 would be good. An F16 would be ideal but as you stated, they are hard to come by, it seems, and there isn't quite a fleet- YET. I think a tiger might be too much to singlehand. I used to have a P16 which always seemed like a tough boat (no match for Ivan, however)

Hobie 17 would be a good boat. You can find them cheap. You can race and sail along. I would add shroud extenders or a righting bag for wife to be able to right. Hobie Wave is another one, although they are a little more expense. Other brands I don't know much about. Try to get some ride on local boats to get a feel. Hope this helps. Check out our site sometime. Oh and cat will take some time to rig, not as easy as a laser but more fun!!

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Nacra A2
www.tcdyc.com

I know there are a fair number of A-Cats in Texas, I just do not know where they are. This is an extremly easy boat to set up. I have a friend who takes his girlfriend with him on the boat.

Formula 18 is a great choice, but takes a bit more to rig than you insinuated that you would like to go through. I sail a Tiger and really like it, very exhilarating. I know there is a pretty nice group of sailors there. I can put you in contact with them if you like.

The other boats you mentioned are for day sailing or Portsmouth racing mostly, except for the Hobie 16. The 16 still races in most of the country as a large enough fleet to be one design. These other boats will be cheap if you are trying to save money. Any of the other boats, used, will be in the $8000 to $13,000 range.

Formula 16 seems to fit what you would like to do, but they are hard to find in the US. You would also be racing Portmouth anywhere in the US. It seems to be slow at catching on.

If you are buying new I would pick it based on the fleet that is around you, presuming you will be buying to race.

Later,
Dan

I would assume that you are relatively light in that you were racing Lasers but weight has a lot to do with performance, and what choices you might make regarding purchase, on a catamaran - how much do you weigh?

A problem for us F16's is that owners tend to hang on to their boats. If you can call that a problem.

However, a few second hand taipan are hitting the US marketplace, several sailors are upgrading to blades some others to cruising boats.

I know of 3 Taipans that are availble for purchase. price range 5000 - 9500 US$ (yes they have taken out a Catsailor classified add and payed Rick for the advertising)

Maybe one of these is of interest to you, pearlbear. Contact me if you want to persue this further.

Otherwise P16's and H16's may be very good choices for you, they both meet a good number of your requirements (although not all). I did 8 years on a P16 personally with very much the same criteria as you specified, I think it to be a good, robust and cheap boat for it. H16 is much the same in these respects.

With respect to class racing. (requirement 2) I would only consider F18, I-20, H16's, A-cats. Boats like the Nacra 5.5's, hobie 18, Prindle 16, etc are all dead classes anyway, or will be dead very soon, without any chance for resurrection. If you going to only race open class anyway then why not do it on a modern boat like the F16's ?

Only advantage to having 5.5's TheMightyHobie18's etc is that you can pick them up dirt cheap. And you should be able to do that as you will be "one of the last mohicans"

Wouter

This one's close...no commmercial interest, but it looks like one I raced against in 2000-01. My first cat was a 5.O, and it meets most of your criteria. Boat-for-boat as fast a Hobie 16, sails well single or doublehanded, depowers by removing jib (still sails fine). Good luck! Check craigslist.

Do you want to race with your wife or girlfriend?,or will they take turns? If you're looking to race with someone and looking for large competitive one design fleets, then it's hard to beat the H16. You can pick up a boat to learn on for $2500 and still be competitive. The North Americans have drawn over 60 teams regularly. When you figure that out, then maybe look into the F18 class. My 2 cents.

So why didn't anyone pipe up and suggest buying the 5.O as a starter and eventually converting it to an F16?

F-16s are very easy to find.

http://www.vectorworkssail.com/f16.html

First and foremost, see what the local fleet is sailing. Ask them the same question that you are asking here. See if someone will take you out on the boats that seem to fit your needs.

DON'T MAKE YOUR DECISION ON WHAT YOU READ HERE! TOO MANY OF THOSE THAT POST HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDA!

Relative to what? A Laser? Then anything mentioned in previous posts will feel fast. If you are looking for something that is fast relative to the entire beachcat population, then your choices are more limited and tend to be more expensive. If you want a relatively fast beachcat (top portion of a mixed fleet based on elapsed time), then the requirement for quick and easy set-up might discourage you from a spinnaker boat, as that just adds time to anyone's set-up and take-down. Then you might end up with a fast, single-handed boat without a spinnaker...an A Class. Remember, TOO MANY OF THOSE THAT POST HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDA!

An interesting exercise is to check out USSailing's Portsmouth ratings. This will take you to the page that tells you how to use Portsmouth Numbers.
http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/howto.htm
The following link will take you to the most current tables.
http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/tables05/tables05mh.htm
It is used to allow boats of different classes to compete on handicap. If you were to use this handicap formula to find out the relative time to go around a race course where the corrected time is one hundred minutes, you would estimate the elapsed time by the DPN in minutes. A boat that has a DPN of 80 would take 80 minutes to sail the same course as a boat that has a DPN of 60 would sail in 60 minutes. It is an estimation of relative speed around a racecourse. Here are the DPN of some of your choices:

A Class 64.8
Blade F16 2-up 65.3
Formula 16 1-up 66.4
Formula 18 (e.g., Tiger) 62.6
H16 76.1
N 5.5 Sloop 67.2
N 5.5 Uni 69.7

Portsmouth is the most common system used for handicapping in the US and is based on years of data submitted by race committees from numerous clubs associated with the USSailing. There are other systems, but the differences are probably not significant for your decisions.

Seriously, talk to the local fleet guys. They won't be near as likely to steer you wrong, and will let you experience their boats before you buy. You might find just the boat you want that is now owned by someone that is ready for a new boat. You get to try out the boat before you put down your hard-earned cash and he gets a buyer for his pride and joy so he can afford to get a new boat. Win-win. The local fleet will want you to be happy with your choice, where those on this forum (like me ) may have other motives. Just my opinion.

just get a formula 40..lots of room for the kids

Great advice Sparky. I also liked your bit on Portsmouth numbers - what that shows is the actual difference in speed between those boats is less than 10% (in theory). So what really matters is how the boat feels to you and how well it matchs your personal priorities.

PearlBeer,

Your local fleet is right on your back door in Austin - you can find contact details on the Division 6 website. Your local commodore is Jim Casto - Nacra 5.5 fanatic and all round good guy.

Division 6 is an association of catamaran fleets in Texas and Louisiana. The division website has a calender of the regional regattas. The first one of the season is next weekend - "Ides of March" in Lake Somerville - just down the road from Austin. There will be a good variety of boats there and you can get some (less) biased advice. All our events are open to all makes of boat.

The division website also has a mailing list to keep up with regional news - I'd encourage you to sign up (its free). There is also a link to the 2004 division results (2005 results should be up within the week) which is useful data as to which boats make the largest classes.

Your local catamaran dealer is the Austin Sailboat Shop. They sell new and a few used boats. You can also find local used stuff at http://texascitydike.com as well as the usual suspects (this site, thebeachcats, ebay, craigslist) and your local paper.

Chris Green,
Chair, Division 6.

Pearlbeer:

There are two Hobie 17's on the http://www.sailboatshopaustin.com/ site.
The Turbo would require an extra bridle setup to race but the yellow one looks like an SE. It has a GREAT Portsmouth rating and is a fun boat. Come down to the Opening of the Dike on the 25th and I will take you out.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Nacra A2
www.tcdyc.com

I overlooked the nacra 5.0, indeed, although it is a class less boat by now. HOWEVER, I would buy that Nacra 5.0 for 900 USD in a heart beat. That is some darn inexpensive boat with good sailing characteristics.

Converting to an F16 ? Well, can be done. Some have done it even. It seems to take a spinnaker rather well. But will take some investments and it will never be really competitive against fully optimized F16's. No point in being less then truthful about that.

Having said this, some sailor seem to make that boat go really fast and shame the fully blown F16 sailors that way. Think mosquito's !

Wouter

I'm gonna second da Flumpmeister. Go try different boats and see what you like.

Sorry Doug, but the Hobie 17 would be a very bad choice since the guy says he wants to sail w/his girlfriend. H17 is NOT, I repeat NOT, a weight carrier. Speaking from direct observation. That, and I think that Doug has the only H17 in the whole Gulf area. Wait, there's one more, come to think. If you were in Tennessee or in New York, that would be a different story.

Personally, I'd love to see you get an 18 Square - we're working on building a fleet, they're cheap, they are good for wild weather, you can carry weight and still go pretty well, simple, singlehand. They do have the wide beam which gives trailering issues, but I have a tilting rack trailer which makes it all very easy.

Go try different boats. Really.

sea ya
tami
NACRA 18 Square "Vileine"
F27GS "Boudicca"

Tami:
I agree there are not a lot of H17's here. You would race Portsmouth most of the time, BUT H17 has great numbers. I put 3 adult on mine all the time and move fine. Not going beat a lighter boat, but fun to play.

Doug

Don't forget about the F17. Speed is equal to the F16 and you should be able to find a used one for around $7,500 to $8,000. Also, it will do anything the F16 will. You can sail it one or two up. It is a rocket ship with the jib. It's slightly heavier than the F16 but I believe this makes it more stable in the chop.

I'm slightly biased though just like the F16 bunch is to their boat.

Tom Turlington
NACRA F17 #12

I have had an 18 Square and F17. Both are terrific boats and lots of fun. The only reason I sold my Square was the fact that I trailer to where I sail. Because I didn't have a tilt trailer, I was removing the hulls from the tramp assy. each time I sailed. I sailed the F17 from 2000-2004 and really loved it..., but then I fell for the A2 .

and so the A2 worked out the best in the end?