There’s been a lot of discussion, both pro and con, about the IHCA mandating that Hobie regattas being restricted to Hobie built and sold boats. This is understandable as the Hobie Company puts some level of effort (read time and money) into supporting Hobie events. This is called marketing. Hobie expects to see a return on investment (regatta support) in the form of selling more boats. They have every right to demand that other manufacturer’s boats not be allowed in Hobie Company assisted events. Otherwise, the message that Hobie is trying to project is diluted.

There have been a number of posts that boil down to calling the Hobie Company a bunch of rat bastards for enforcing something that was never allowed in the first place. My question is, why are those of you that suddenly find yourselves without a regatta sitting around whining about it? Can’t you put on an open event that’ll attract all types of manufacturer’s boats? Won’t the people that put on Hobie regattas help with open events?

My experience has been racers are racers. They really don’t care if it’s a one design or open event, they want to compete. I wish we had the wealth of boats and events you guys do on the Mainland. Here on Maui, I’m trying to convince a couple of Corsair owners to show up for YC regattas so they’ll give the multihulls a start. All the YCs want is three boats and all I’ve been able to do is two. Bummer.

So, quit whining, organize your own regattas and GO RACE!!!

Gee it's quite strange reading about "one design" regattas in the states.
In Australia if any regatta is restricted to only one design racing it's called a state heat or a national title. Apart from those, every other regatta that I know of is open to any and all classes (including all monohulls as well). There is such a variety of different designs sailing, and spread out at most clubs around Australia that if "one design" was ever required by any of the clubs, they would be reducing the participation numbers at any one regatta to such a degree that it probably wouldn't even pay them to run the event, (and the clubs supply the club rooms, vehicles to tow the boats to and from the beach, showers, bar, meals, rescue and duty boats, flag officers, they set out the course and they time the competitors as well as calculate the results, hear any protests, and give out the trophies). Then again, all regattas in Australia are organised and run by the various yacht clubs and not by any class of cat/monohull, so it is in the interests of the clubs to have as many boats as possible at every event. The races are always “open”, but usually divided into “divisions” each with their own start. IE, 18’, 20’ cats (and anything in between) start and race together, any cat greater than 14’ and less than 18’, start and race together, and all 14’ and less similarly. (Although the division break up is now generally not divided by the size of cat but more by a yardstick/rating similarity division). If the numbers of any individual class (whether cat or monohull) is great enough then they may at times request their own start, but they still race out on the water with all the other classes present. This situation has been the same for at least the last 50 years and it has worked (and still works) to perfection. Don’t you guys have similar clubs there, where, as members of those clubs, you have regular “open” weekly club races as well as ‘open” regattas run by the respective clubs?

Hi,

What Daryl said is right. I will preferace (sp?) my comments by saying that I am currently on the committee of our local Hobie Association.

In Australia we are lucky to have forged a strong working relationship with the factory by means of sponsorship, prizes and logistical support to all of the local associations.

In order to build this relationship the local associations are spending significant effort in developing hobie cat regattas beyond the standard state and national titles. One such series has been the highly successful travellers series in NSW.

Without the factory's support, these sorts of things just wouldn't happen. To expect continued support by allowing other boats to compete is living in fairy land.

The factory won't stop anybody from competing in open regattas but they won't tip money into anything but their own class. (How many other manufacturers do?)

HC(Australia) make no appologies for this and I have to say that I agree.

Tiger Mike

Matt:

You don't have a choice here so just say "good riddance" and go sailing!

Personally, I won't be dictated too and have no interest in association with those who don't wish to associate with me.

I'm not interesed in the reasons or the intentions.

I don't take Matt's post as "whining." And I don't attribute anything else to it above what he simply stated - they lost some cat sailors to big boats. I actually found myself talking to a guy last weekend about getting on a Snipe - a pin-head, slow, DDW wing-on-wing POS... but that is the class racing around here. You're right, Mike - racers are racers.

Anyone who wants to hijack the thread back to an HCA debate should just go read one of the threads where stooopit absolutes were eloquently expressed by both sides. I don't think that's what was intended in the original post.

I like the way Darryl says things are down under - I wish more cat sailors joined YCs and took advantage of what the clubs have to offer. I think there is a reticence or unwillingness to do so because cats are on trailers and fleets are so mobile - plus the money... even though many clubs are only a couple hundred bucks a year, that is far more than some of the association and fleet dues of old. I joined a club, but I'm pretty lonely because others feel it is too much of an investment.

Oh, and 204? You guys are doing it right, but face it. You are a YC... the dining room is just a bit of a hike from the bar and the beach, that's all. Your fleet is now indistiguishable from a good sailing association or small yacht club. Good on ya.

John; Good on ya'!

Out of desparation, I joined a sailing club and have met lots of nice people and done a lot of things I would not have done other wise.

For me, the important thing is being on the water!

Matt(Fairport) Some constructive advice. If you want to run a successful regatta you will need some boats. The best way to do that is invite the Hobie fleets. Check the regatta schedules and pick an open weekend. You should attend a fleet 295 meeting and let them know what your doing. Send a flyer to fleet 204 and we will put it in our newsletter and bring it up at a fleet meeting. You could even make an anouncement at the Madcatter and even volunteer to help or come crew on a boat.You can put a post on our fleet website forum. There are a lot of Hobies every year at the Canandaigua open multihull regatta the Sharks put on. I would bet that if you helped out at the Rochester regatta you would get some help in return. If you have not run an event before, I can tell you it is a lot of work and having some experienced help will make for a better event.
So, I would not take the good riddance advice.
You will catch more flies with honey than Sh*#.
Attached: Some fleet members at our end of year outing.
Getting a bunch of these people to your regatta will go a long way to making it a success.

What TigerMike says is right, they are developing a "specific" series, but am I correct Mike in saying that the traveller series races are still all sailed at yacht clubs using the clubs facilities on their “normal” race days together with many other classes on the water? Isn’t that a good example of associations and manufacturers working together here in Australia with the clubs, all for the benefit of the sailers? It would seem (from what I read in these posts) to be that in the states, the different classes want to sail “by themselves” and they apparently do it away from organised clubs out on some beach or other. Isn’t that a little like “divide and conquer”? Or at the least it reduces the overall number of sailers at any one event. To my way of thinking, the more boats on the water at one time (regardless of their type or class) the more enjoyable the sailing and the more boats that the public see together, the more they are likely to become interested in “joining” the fun. To sail with 70 or more other boats on the water (cats and mono’s) every week at your local club is much more pleasurable than sailing with only 4 to 6 boats of your same class “away” from all the club camaraderie, that sounds to me like a lonely way of racing.

That’s pretty much what Hobie has always done to sell their brand of boats. If you only see examples of a limited number of boats then that’s probably what you’ll buy. Think of it as vertical marketing. If you control manufacturing, distribution (dealers) and user groups (fleets), you’ve pretty much got complete control of the buyers. On the other hand, without the ground breaking marketing Hobie did, we probably wouldn’t see the number of cats and manufacturers we do today.

I joined Hobie Fleet 20 in Northern California in 1982. At one point, we had over 150 members. It was huge. We didn’t need to be part of an YC because we were probably bigger than most YCs. And the dues were $20 a year. Great times, people, and we sailed our collective butts off. Booyaaah!!

Times change. Today I live in West Maui. With the unavailability of slips in either Maalaea or Lahaina (25 year waiting list) there are very few privately owned leaners that race. The typical turnout is four boats. I can put a regatta together that’ll be triple the size using the junior sailing program’s Sabots and Lasers.

As I’ve mentioned in other posts, I’ve gotten the YC that does most of the regattas to offer a multihull start. All they want is three boats. So far, I’ve only been able to convince one Corsair owner to come out. He’s even going to use a ringer as skipper. Who cares? I want to race. How about some of you guys who are building multiboat trailers adding water wings and coming over for a week of racing? When the trades are up it blows consistently at 15 to 25 and the water is always 80 degrees.

In the self proclaimed sailing capitol of the world. Annapolis, Maryland AND the entire Chesapeake Bay watershed. 200 miles top to bottom with over 1000 miles of coastline... We have TWO sailing club with mast up storage. West River is a dinghy's, leaners and ONLY A class catamaran club (two seasons old for the A's). PRSA is way up the Potomac River just outside DC by RR National Airport and suitable for sailing 16's or very very dedictated 20 sailors (lots of tacks to avoid the hydrilla death zones)

We have two Catamaran only clubs, WRCRA and SMSA which offer mast up storage and a port a potty! (the property is leased yearly to us)

CRAC, Fleet 54, Fleet 32 are all paper clubs which own storage trailers for the marks, grill and beer coolers.

We have shifted an increasing number of our regattas to existing yacht clubs which offer us starts while dropping some of the events we ran as a club. We now race several events with all of the monohulls on the bay (up to 170 boat events) and several events with the Annual Dinghy Regattas at clubs on the Eastern shore of the bay (Not near the major east coast cities)

To their credit Fleet 54 and Fleet 32 (AKA Hobie Fleet 54 and Hobie Fleet 32) have chosen to run open regattas on a beach in their area (as they have have for the past dozen or so years of their 35 years of existence).

When events generated 100 plus boats.. the yacht clubs could not handle the turnout space wise... so seperate events were sustainable and necessary. Now, when the events are much smaller,.... seperate events will wear you out and never generate the large critical mass of people.

I personaly hope that Pat B's suggestion that perhaps things change at the IHCA will allow a return to the policy of the recent past and allow 54 and 32 to use their proper names.

I think that it is terrific if Hobie Cat supports their racing owners. If they created a great championship event in a region that were exclusively for a Hobie Class, that would certainly work to the greater good of cat racing.

However, it's a huge difference between ONE sponsored regatta in a region for Hobie class championships and 100 percent of the regattas in a region being restricted to Hobie Only classes. (Moreover, if you were serious about the one design notion... you would not have starts for any hobie class that did not generate 5 boats on the line and force those sailors to sail in an active Hobie class boat)

Some areas of the country have been negatively impacted by the split while others changed their names and continued on as they have in the past ... just reprinted the paperwork.

I am curious... Back in the day... How many cat's were particpating at these Aussie clubs... (I imagine you had lots of space so that you did not need to create regattas on large public beaches.) The law of unintended consequences... the failure to join yacht clubs back in the day.... leaves us a bit high and dry in the 21st century.

Take Care
Mark
www.sailcrac.com

At the yacht clubs along the sandy beaches that Adelaide is built facing there are seven yacht clubs (not counting the keel boat basins). They vary in size and number of members, but all except one have catamaran members, (the one exclusion has a full membership of mono's, and in the seventies and eighties used to start 270 to 300 boats with up to 14 different starts 5 minutes apart). During the eighties, inclusive of all the clubs where cats sailed from off of the city beaches, there would have been approximately 300 to 350 cats (probably more) of different classes and sizes that raced each and every Saturday. Those numbers have diminished in recent times, but there are still 5 clubs that cat’s race at every Saturday. There are also several other clubs out of the metropolitan area that cats sail regularly at, all within an hour’s drive of the city. The facilities at each club are excellent and the launch and retrieve is straight out of the water onto the sand then onto your trailer and drive off the beach with your car and boat to go home (or park in the clubs car park and “use” all that the club has to offer). There are “lock up” facilities at some of the clubs where you can leave your cat with the mast up but the vast majority of sailers find that they prefer to tow their boats home and park them in their back yards or garages as nearly everyone lives no more than 30 minutes from their club, and the traffic by most America standards is non existent. You never “plan” to go racing, you just automatically go to your local club every Saturday afternoon to be on the water before your regular start time. Regattas are mostly held on Sundays or long weekends and then sailers from all the different clubs congregate to whichever club is having that regatta. Regattas such as the “Milang to Goolwa”, a point to point race across lake Alexandrina and down the river Murray to its mouth, and the “Goolwa to Milang”, sailed about a month apart, attract 200 to 300 starters year after year. This is in a state with a population of only about one million people.
As far as launching at beaches other than at yacht clubs, there are virtually no restrictions. All beaches in South Australia are “public”, there is no such thing as “a private beach” and as such all are accessible to the general public. This includes launching and retrieving your sail boat or cat wherever you can access the beach. Even by having that freedom of access, most sailers prefer to go to the clubs, - it is just so much easier and more pleasent.

In the late 80's we used to get near on 50 H16's, 20 Yvonne 20' (An aussie classic at that predates even the Hobies and they are still going!), plus god knows how many other boats every Saturday at my club. Then (in their infinite wisdom), the 16 fleet decided to travel around the bay, sailing at a different club every weekend.

They saw it as a great way to experience everybodies facilities for low cost (ie they were't paying their way). Unfortunatly it backfired bigtime. All that happened was the boats got spread in little pockets around the bay dwindling away to only a handfull.

A couple of years ago HCAV decided to go back to club based sailing by setting themselves up as a focal point, directing prospective sailors to those clubs that sail hobie cats - 1 or 2 in each area.

It is a win-win situation - the association only has to organise a couple of regattas per year, the clubs benifit with stronger membership and the sailors win with strong fleets to sail in each weekend. Those that want to travel also have that opportunity.

I am only speaking about Victoria. The other states seem to be following their own strategies with a variety of results.

Tiger Mike

To say that a single sponsor can have total control of how regatta is run by a local fleet seems a bit extreme to me. I certianly wouldn't let West Marine say that all competitors that use WM sailing gloves can attend and all others can piss off.

As for the "stop whining and put on your own regatta" comment well, it's not all that black and white either. Say the regional Hobie Division holds 4 regatta's a year. That's four events that only Hobie sailors can attend and probably about as many as the average racer would be willing to attend. So the open events and the Hobie only events end up competing for the same small pool of sailors hurting both groups. So, no I don't think the Hobie edict is good for multihull growth, either for Hobie or any other manufacturer for that matter.

Dave

Blaaa Blaa Blla
bla blabla
blaaaaa....aaa...

zzzzzzzzzz.......

I was down at Dunedin Causeway (FL) this weekend to help out with the St. Patty's Day Regatta. There were about 15 cats in the race and probably 25-30 total cats on the beach. There was only 1 Hobie entered in the race and only 3-4 total on the beach. It was the first time I can remember that there was fewer Hobies on the beach than any other model. I can see the reasoning of why Hobie has closed regattas and we know it has worked in some areas, but overall Hobie boats seem to be declining in use, at least down here. What ever happened to all of the Miracle 20's that were sold? You almost never see them out on the water anymore. I think maybe at least allowing other brands of boats to race might really be in the best interest of Hobie, even if they score the Hobies seperately, or do a dual scoring of all boats/hobie only. The more events people are involved in will only help keep people sailing and if they keep sailing eventually they will need a new boat, no matter what brand they sail now. For the most part, the people willing to buy a new boat are the ones that are involved in racing. The better they get, or the more involved they get, the better boat they will buy.
Just my 2 cents...

Gotta respectively disagree. The whole fleet/division/national/international organization is a marketing tool to sell boats. Even the Hotline, until the editors lost sight of what their reader base wanted, was another marketing tool. The IHCA may be an independent organization, but they will take any input from the Hobie Company very seriously.

You also have to look at what’s become of the Hobie fleets. Back in the ‘80s in the Division area I lived in, there was either a regatta or fun sail almost every summer weekend. The regattas would usually get a turnout of at least 75 boats. There were fleets galore, there were dealers galore, and Hobie was making some serious coin. Life was good.

Come the ‘90s and things started to change. Fleets shrunk or folded, dealers shrunk and either folded or changed their product line and Hobie saw income shrinking. The fleets, being flexible and figuring that a multihull is a multihull, were able to keep their memberships and regattas pumped up by allowing for open class members and starts.

I still say racers are racers. Granted, the Hobie fleet regattas are now limited to Hobies, but if there’s only four Hobie regattas in a Division, I’d either be looking for races put on by other organizations or travel to another Division’s area.

It seems like the non-Hobie boats have had it pretty good for the last few years with Hobie fleets taking on the responsibility and organization of the regattas. Now that the IHCA has said it’s enforcing the rule about non-Hobie boats competing, you can either whine about the past or do something about the future.

Scheduling? Non-issue. Talk to your counterparts in the different local organizations and work it out. Who’s gonna run it? Either somebody has to sit on the committee boat or see if a YC will help out. Nobody will show ‘cause they’re burnt out from four regattas? Come on! Racers are racers. Set up a semi-decent event and racers will show up. If they have a good time, the word of mouth will get you a better turnout for the next event.

The past is the past and the IHCA has made their ruling. It’s not going to change. Ever. That leaves the non- Hobie guys with two choices; sail or sit on the beach. I’m for sailing. How about you?

This is exactly the reason why I appreciate the fact that the Hobie classes are pretty dead over where I am and open fleets are alive and well. Now they themselfs can just shut up and sit on the beach or swallow their pride and sail open class with the rest of us.

Funny really, how other classes never seem to want to exclude Hobies while hobie always wants to exclude all other classes. One more reason why I would never own a Hobie. The other reason is that I think that a 3 boat FX-one class at a regattas is not a class just 3 sailors acting really silling.

Wouter

If West Marine were doing organising it, why not? It is a simple choice, you wear the gloves & enjoy the regatta or you go find some other regatta to sail at.



Be clear, hobie will do what is right for Hobie - end of story. To be honest, why should they organise events for guys that don't buy their product?? Be real.

Tiger Mike

To showcase their products and increase market share.

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hobie will do what is right for Hobie , why should they organise events for guys that don't buy their product??
Tiger Mike


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To give pay back for the events that other non-hobie alligned volunteers or organisations have created (also) for Hobie sailors.

Maybe Round Texel should exclude all Hobies ? Why would that organisation accept sailors that don't by their open class format ?

Wouter