The F-16 hp 18s and 18ht seem to be progressing well ,-no reason why the 20s will not follow ,particularly with great events planned .



As you noted Jake ,the other major aspect of the Tybee race will be media coverage , obviously they need Rick here on Catsailor to handle the main coverage of the race as official site , that along with team web sites many already kept in place year round will assist in helping obtain a major race sponsor /-sponsors .

Beyond normal entry fee for race officials and staff I would be happy to add for in for a similar movie documentary type film to be made , similar to the excellent job Robert and Jeanie do each year with the Worrell ,but filmed with several on board waterproof cameras more from the catsailors perspective , this along with sponsors race promotion and contacting other major media and publications as well as all the sailing related publications will insure the race gets off to a great start .A major media sponsor like Volvo ,Coke ,-Pepsi ,Catilac ,etc as in the Pepsi Formula 500 with ESPN T V time WOULD BE IDEAL , it is in the near future.

Would also be happy to chip in for consultation with a sports marketing firm to assist .



Without ideas preparation plans and attempts to achieve them nothing happens , what is there to loose, at the least we will have another great race and great time.



Carl

Hi Carl,



I hope the F 20 can come together but as we discussed in the past the problem with the existing boats is the huge difference in boat weights. It would be almost better to do a grandfather clause for boats built before 1999-2000 and then have a weight minimum for boats 2001 and newer. Kind of a 20 leveler rule. weigh everything to call it an adjusted boat weight --- not perfect but getting closer. set a provision for HT class boats under f20 that people just get to over time due to the life expectancy of a production boat. Let Darwin take its course.



As for the 500 --- care, water and feeding will bring a huge event.

Chuck,



1. GO FOR IT!



2. I am in Organizational Planning,...the hardest step is what you have just done,...the first step.



3. The rest evolves,....sometimes as chaos,....which is what you are seeing now,....so you are on the right track!



If you need help,...write me.





Bruce Andryc

St. Croix, USVI

Hope some are enjoying the night pic of Dave and me in this years Worrell . {you can right click and zoom in }Team member Chris Zander ,{also a comercial artist } made our sponsors logo {fish } from a reflective material lighting up at night ,--

A great added safety feature that all teams , sail, and sail mfg.eventually should adopt.



Always controversial crew weight and boat weight issues in any racing .



The crew weight on the 20s is less of a factor due to generous sail plans per designers and larger basic more buoyant platform ,--most Worrell teams were 340 -350 LBS some were min 325 , believe the current I-20 natl,champs are 390 or 400 LBS,--a nice wide range of proven competitive crew weights to sail .



Boat weights vary between designs ,--The F 20 rule has adopted the Tornado boat weight as min.class boat weight -376 LBS .



There also is a second catagory of boat weights for older existing designs of 410LBS and up like the H-20 , N-6-0 ,-existing Euro F-20 BOATS ,Mystere and others ,. As compensation for this weight older existing designs are given an added 30 sq ft of spin area .

Other Formula classes do this for crew weight {allow added spin area },but it is not needed on the 20s and is therefor used to compensate the differencial in existing boat weights hopefully allowing older boats to remain very competitive with this added 30 sq ft of spin area. The two catagories of boat weights 376 +LBS and 410 +have 270 and 300 sq ft spin areas respectively, -



-Here are a copy of prop.-- Open Formula Class Rules -



-OPEN FORMULA 20 CLASS



For people of good will to race together for the enjoyment of the sport in accordance with the Racing Rules of Sailing and in the spirit of rule #2 of fair sailing under ISAF rules –To compete within recognized principles of sportsmanship and fair play.



Intent -.

To race 20-ft catamarans of various design features as a fleet on a first across the finish line wins basis, in buoys and distance racing.



Amendments—We wish to keep rules as simple as possible and rely on good intent of sailors in accordance with standard safety requirements per sailing rules and required gear and class principles as stated. Amendments per majority vote of active class members.

The Open-F20 Committee will propose amendments to the rule if necessary. Amendments shall be placed on one year’s notice unless it is considered essential to act immediately to prohibit an unseaworthy feature. Formula 20 boats will often be sailed in Worrell type distance racing events and all components are to be constructed accordingly and sailed extensively in varied conditions before competing.



Basic specifications - OPEN FORMULA 20.



LENGTH –20 ft one inch max. —Stern to bow meas.

BEAM - 8.5 ft –max.hull point meas.

WEIGHT –two categories of boat wgt. –376 Lb. and above

-410 Lb. and above

-Definition boat weights –boat sails and all att gear fully rigged

Boats may add permanently fixed gear and floatation to meet min.

Corrector weights will also be allowed for boats under 376lb. total.

SAIL AREA –two corresponding categories

376 min boat wgt –MAINSAIL =210 sq. ft inc. mast --53 sq. ft jib +270 sq. ft spin, max.

410 min.boat weight MAINSAIL =210 sq. ft – 60 sq. ft jib + 300 sq. ft spin. Max.

Increases of 7-sq. ft. in jib and 30 sq. ft in spin area in 34-LB boat wgt differential.



Sail area may be traded off from main to jib of equal sq. ft to allow modification and design variation of sail plan to any max. S A combination of smaller main in category

All measurements per standard current ISAF measurement rules, --see diagrams and instruction.



-Roller furlers and main reef points may be used. -

-All teams to use the same set of sails for a regatta or distance race, but may be replaced if severely damaged to allow a team to continue racing with the permission of race organizers per event racing instructions.



Sailmakers and owners to list sq. ft in 2 inch numerals at the tack of each sail next to the sailmakers logo with signature over. All sails are to be commercially available to any sailing team. Existing class cat designs will be accepted as listed per mfg. or sailmaker. -Racing will be on the honor system, but any boat may be challenged and checked along with the protesting party also being checked for weight and sail area compliance. Those not in compliance will be DSQ for those races.



CREW –One or more may be crew. -All must be capable of righting from a capsize.

-CREW WEIGHT –-A class min of 320 Lb., one half of weight below may be carried by lighter teams to meet min req.-Example –a 300 team may carry 10 LB s to meet min.

Wgt based on teams wearing standard swim apparel and shirt.



-MASTS –May be of alum. and/or carbon fiber or combinations of non conducting materials in standard section tapered or uniform and a Max 32 ft length. With-standard wire rigging in any configuration.



-HULLS -BOARDS and RUDDERS–Of any standard material or configuration.



SPIN POLES –a MAX 14 FT. length may be used made of any material in standard configuration with snuffer configuration of any type.



Dispensation -

Older existing designs may be given dispensation per F-20 committee by owners request in design feature trade offs -

example = an existing heavier mast rig and standard class smaller mainsail in compensation for larger spin area, again only applied to older existing designs per owners request .

contact O F 20 committee --carlcrdesign@aol.com



-

CLASS EMBLEM



The starboard side of the mainsail may carry the Open -Formula-20 logo of racing Formula 20s along with individual sail number for scoring purposes.

Carl,



You and I have talked about this before -- the dreaded boat weight issue.



Here is the weight of both my 'old' 20 footers that I would/could sail.



1998 Nacra 6.0 --- 348 lbs

1996 Hobie 20 --- 305 lbs



Crew weight (myself and normal crew)



Me 198 lbs

Crew 180 lbs



Total -- 378 lbs



Total combined



Nacra 6.0 -- 726 lbs

Hobie 20 -- 683 lbs



Under both of your proposed weights I have to add weight to the boat and I'm giving up 58 lbs to lighter crews. So we're sailing anywhere to 80 - 150 lbs heavier than anyother boatsout there without a way to level the field.



I'm just saying really look at these issues. Oh yes these boat weights are certified. So those in doubt I can supply the paperwork to prove it.



The sail area issue should be adjusted to crew weights more than boat weights and ideally to combined weights to truely make each boat/ crew even in available horsepower.



Steve

Thank you,



I have been following the worrell and wondering how I could ever participate. The more I read about it and know about myself the more it looks like a dream that will not happen. Your proposal comes at the perfect time for me. I can do a 1 week race in Fla. on my Inter 20 and look forward to being at the starting line and in one piece at the finish line.

Steve,,,



Do you mean 448 for your N6.0,, and 405 for your H20 ??



This brings up a good point,, although quite outside of the scope of this thread. But here goes,,, What is the most reasonably accurate and economical means of weighing a boat ?? (4)walmart scales ?? I am sure there have been some innovative ideas tried out there.

Who said life was supposed to be fair. Again people arguing that a race should not happen because it will not be fair, their boat has too little sail or their gut keeps them from being compettive on a H16. If winning is so important then these people should only race in their class association races. I have said it before and I will say it again. I will race any 20ft boat and I do not care how you have modified it or how heavy you and your crew are. If you want to fly a 600 Sq foot spin, and can keep the boat on the water then you will win and I will still have a great time racing against you. And I will learn what it takes to fly a 600 SQFT spin. If someone feels a need to buy a new sail to win a $5 trophy so that they can tell their yacht club buddies that they won a race then so be it, I like to sit around a bon fire on the beach and tell lies about the time I flipped my boat in 3ft of water 100 yards from shore.

Sail hard, sheet in, go fast. not some fantasy about how I am the greatest sailor in the world this week because the right combination of mistakes, wind and luck provided by God caused someone to win a cat race. If your personality is offended by losing a race then dont race and seek proffessional help. OK Rant over please blast me now.

Great Marc ,-be sure to e mail team Tybee {race organizers }and give them your suggestions and support .

www.teamtybee.com



Also really like your proposed major distance race in Texas ,-

I,ve sailed in Corpus Cristy and Padre Islands in years past ,it seems like another great venue possibley up to Fort Walton Beach in the Gulf, with help from fleets along the coast this similar type of Worrell race may expand from one of the great existing distance races in Texas ,-I,msure several of the excellent catsailing teams from TX are up for it.



note on Steve's weight prop. -

In an ideal catsailing world all teams would be the exact same height ,weight, strength, hearing and sight, etc,all physical human factors ,--in attempting to equalize them we often just compound problems and inadvertantly discriminate in other areas, --just look at fatboy rules attempted.

crew weight is desided by each team in choosing who to team up and race with , heavier crew weight is an advantage in higher wind conditions allowing a team more ft lbs of righting moment on the wire to hold the boat down ,, sometimes bows up .-To compensate lighter teams in the ideal catsailing world in higher winds adjustable racks would be added allowing an equalization of ft lbs or righting moment ,-team height would also have to be factored into the rack distance equation from hulls for each team along with weight, you then could allow heavier crew teams added proportional sail area as you propose as a solution , without both you are discriminating against lighter teams . --Now you have a nightmare of measurements enforcement checks , and for teams each time a crew is changed or both loose weigh a new sail is needed , those with different or replacement crew are not class legal etc etc,--not a practical ,realistic ,or fair solution .---



The solution for the Hobie 20 is to add a new carbon fiber replacement comtip and new main along with spin and snuffer system to equal or surpass the performance of the current I-20s speed potential , Add safety gear ,compasses etc needed , this will bring the boat weight to 410 and allow the 300 sq ft spin ,-The added horsepower will more than make your team competitive . As you know there are numerous ways to take weight out of any existing cat especially the N-6-0 ,-to bring it to min boat weight 410 . The mfg. should never allow these types of weight variations in the first place . This boat would not be competitive without this modification in any class or type of racing .fix it .

--One should not confuse existing problems in design and building and presuppose them onto a new Formula class that is attempting to allow modifications and upgrades to help allow catsailors to correct these inherant problems .



New techniques in racing the 20s have really jumped up the speed potential in this length catagory as we all have seen in this years Worrell with 6 new leg records set , {often by 350-360 lb teams } -which most that race it will tell you is the ideal weight range , and over this distance and range of weather becomes a true test of sailing , tactical ,boat prep, navagational,endurance,and seamanship skills.

How is about truck stops? All big truck stops have certified scale (I think with 10 lbs precision, It can be verified at fuel desk). Drive in with boat on trailer, get a weight, park at lot, get a boat out of trailer and weight truck and empty trailer one more time. For total cost of 7 bucks (6-first time and 1 for second) one can get a boat weight up to 10 lbs accuratcy.



Just a wild idea:-) - I used to be a truck driver

For all who want to know here is the info on the 6.0



That is fully rigged. The only changes that I have made to my boat is replacing all the nuts/bolts with titanium (aircraft) bolts. That took a few pounds and are alot stronger (did it before the last worrell I ran). Also, I baked the hulls when I got the boat to get the boat to fully cure. Each hull weighed about 5 lbs less after and according to a friend who builds racing airplanes make the structure stronger and less likely to draw water.



Other than that its stock. That weight was without the spinnaker setup and related spin gear





--- Carl, I agree with you totally, I am just showing that maybe we want to look at crew weight being the adjusting factor over boat weight. If I increased my boat weight to a minimum then I could reconfigure my sails to crew weight (as would other teams) and then we would have basically the same platforms (I said basically).



--- Marc, My ego is not driven by winning races. I enjoy sailing/racing and really don't give a hairy rat's A## where I finish as long as the field is semi level. I race in order to improve my sailing skills and to be outside out of the office, away from the phone. My job is stressful enough to freak out if I don't win doing my hobby. If I wanted a nervous breakdown I'd play golf !! One thing that I am tired of is basically this. I'm 190 lbs 6'3" have a 32 inch waist (so as you can see I'm not a fat body) and I still have to race against crew weights that are optimum for 16-18 foot boats. Hell, I could race those boats and be semi-competitive but, where in the hell is the boat/class configured for my weight group???? You know where it is???? Let's all toss out the Randy's and that class of sailor. Let's look at the rest of us hacks out here. How many of us weigh 150 lbs??? How many 170 lbs??? Crew minimum is two 160 lbs guys --- hell other than cat sailors I don't know any 30-40 year old 160 lbs guys. And out of the catsailors the only ones that I know a Randy class.



Back to Carl --- this is the reason Carl that the series is looking into 22 to 24 foot boats because the monohull guys won't come into a class for small people. We needed the big names to pull in the yacht clubs and the y.c's to pull in the sponsors so that's how the food chain grew.



Vladimir, I actually have weighed the trailer alone then weighed the boats individually. The best thing is my tow vehicle is a diesel so the weigh was free!! Got to love it.



Steve

Would it be a good idea to ask the particular boat companies to "sponsor" a particular class for the event? This would seem like a fair idea, as it would allow more sailors to participate (with several classes), as well as defray some of the financial burden (of additional staff, logistics, etc.) to the major sponsors (Tybee, Rolex, or whomever). The mfg. could specify which class (like the Hobie Fox class, the I-20 class, Marstrom 20 class, etc.) to add to the NOR, and the organizers could (at their discretion) add an "open" class or formula class.



If boats of widely different d-PNs are used, I guess one option would be to have staggered starts, with the slowest off the beach first in an attempt to have them all finish at the same time to save the poor RC from having to sit all day (or several days as the event progresses) judging finishes.

Carl,



Thanks for your compliment on our Worrell 1000 videos. (For those who don't know about our videos, see our ad in the Catsailor Classifieds.) We're back from this year's race with about 100 hours of raw footage to sort through and edit down to the 2-hour highlight tape. Assuming that the Formula 500 race does not conflict with the Worrell 1000, we will most likely do a similar highlights tape for that race as well. As you know, we are not paid by anybody to travel up the coast and shoot the Worrell 1000, and the money we receive from tape sales has never even covered our costs. With some financial help from registration fees, coverage on the water of some, if not all of the boats would be possible. We have been working on designs for a waterproof system and boat mount. We had some boatcams in the 2001 race tape and will have some in the 2002 tape. We look forward to continued improvment of our methods. It has to be a system that we can afford to lose, since flooding and impact damage are not merely a possibility but an eventuality. (Team Cat Fever shot with our boatcams this year and trashed two water resistant housings and one camera. But it's all in the name of getting great footage.) We welcome comments about our videos and suggestions for future videos from the sailors, other race participants and viewers of our tapes.



Robert & Jeanine Feldman

-Hi Steve



With Catsailor magazine climbing the web site popularity list recieving millions of hits during the Worrell creating a niche in the marketplace many very sharp avertising and sports marketing firms I,m sure are aware of this and the next logical progression to ESPN t v time and a series of races .

Racing Prosail and the Ultimate Yacht races in 88 on then brand new Hobie 21s with shutes ,seen on NBC Sports and on ESPN WERE GREAT FUN , one of the best years I had sailing ,-



If opportunities are there more major sponsorship is key , the best existing platform and proven design is the ARC 22 in the 400 lb range and still manageable and affordable --In this size range the human scale to boat sail area size is no longer a factor and is the solution to your weight requirements and event requirements . It could become a F-22 Class based on the ARC specs. it is a great design -

ARC-22 Specifications



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Designer

Roberts / Haberman



Specifications



LOA: 22 ' 0" (6.71 m)

LWL: 21 ' 9" (6.63 m)

Minimum Weight: 415 lbs. (188.24 kg)

Spar: 38' 6" (11.73 m)

Maximum Sail Area: 360 sq. ft. (33.45 m2)

Beam: 12 ' 0" (3.66 m)

Draft, Rudders only: 2 ' 0" (0.61 m)

Draft, Board down: 4 ' 0" (1.22 m)

.

developing a new specific 24 would take time effort and energies away from promoting the racing series , plus the ARC 22 IS IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE FOR CREWS TO TRAIN AND PREPAIR . Each team would need a sponsor or team budget of 40 to 50 k to campaign it as some Worrell teams now recieve , this would take some time , planning, and serious commitment for all involved , but many avid racers in numerous classes including the Yacht Club crowd mentioned all have been through similar campaigns ,have the caliouses and battle scares, with experiences to see it through and make a great success of it .--Good people involved in each aspect---sponsors ,organizers ,partisipants, are key .

kEEP WORKING ON IT , let us know how to help .

Carl

Lloyd Berry got rid of this ARC 22 because it was "a beast" and hard or impossible to control in hign (even medium winds). No SC 22s were racing at this year's Miami to Key Largo, Hogsbreath 100, or Mug Race. There is a reason for this! They are over the limit of reasonable control.



As far as placing large crew on these boats, you will only jepardize your mast. The ARC 22 racers are hitting the garages and distance racing is safer because of it.



Stick with the 18s and 20s! As far as the F-20 idea, why not just go one-design I-20? There are now lots on the market and forcing Nacra 6.0s, Hobie 20, and Tornados to make major modifications and undertake major expenses will doom your efforts, IMHO! I suggest, I-20 and N6.0 one-design classes, and the F18 and F-18HT formula classes for the new Formula 500 regatta. Like several others, including Robert Feldman, have said-Please don't conflict with the W-1000 dates (or place the races too close), as I would love to do both!

Hi Feg



Hope to do both races also , according to Tybee race organizers dates will not conflict . It would be a matter for most established sponsored teams to offer the advertising and exposure of two major races , with increase in team budget , and possibley more in their local area.



,on the F-20 allowing partisipation from Hobie on the Fox ,r and H-20 , just as the Tiger in the F-18 class ,plus any other Euro Formula 20 design ,plus Nacras6/0s Mysteres etc,that wish to enter along with numerous Inter 20s , is a GOOD thing , and will not doom anything but increase the potential pool of partisipants and help with international teams or teams traveling across country with more potential boat availability.



-Sails are open ,like the 18 hts , this could be the only complaint by some Inter 20 owners . Elliot mainsails are very good , excellent sails, that have a wide range of adjustment from very full to very flat ,-we now have 3 jibs to choose from including a full battened self tacking type.If new shapes for spin. have evolved in the last two years it will be equally available to all per class rules or not used at all .



We may see interesting hybred cats on the racecourse, A Hobie 20 or Nacra 6/0 with an Inter 20 carbon type mast and sailplan or 8.5 beam Tornado which may prove to be it,s equal or superior in some conditions , though sailing skill will be the factor . Also sailing time on these boats and techniques of tuning and sailing them faster are also a major factor .



On the Arc ,have not sailed one but have been on the 27 ,-they are scarry fast and would require very experienced crew in heavy air conditions .



Nice to hear from Robert and Jeanie , film makers extrodinare, who film the Worrell video each year ,-the 01 film is great and a must see , I,m ordering more to send to my sponsor , and sailing friends as gifts .



Carl

The problem with scheduling in Florida is the weather. The worrell is run just about as early in the season as it is sane to do. Any earlier and your likely to be racing into a N'easter (not good -- I trained in the Jax-St. Simon's Ga. area). Much later and your in Hurricane season (hell of a thing to get ground crew caught in an evacuation). Which leaves really late in the season nov.-dec. which looks like a great time line.



When you look at the schedule of distance races.

May Worrell

June Crac 100

July ?

August ?

September -- rough riders, round the island

Oct ?

Nov ?

December -- steeplechase



The ? is for my bad memory on the schedules, please fill in the blanks. Jan - april would work if you stay south of sebastian inlet.



Carl --- On the ARC 22, I don't think the boat is right for a series due to production issues. IE How many can be built in x period of time? As for sponsors, we have them signed up. We're working out the kinks with the YC's also looking at the costs of running a transport for chartered boats. Basically looking at the plan again post Sept. 11. Also, working out the kinks with the insurance companies (this one is the best hurdle).



Thats where the series is at. Do I think the ARC is overpowered ? NO I have never heard of a sc/ARC 22 mast failure (as mentioned above) I have sailed the sc22 in 20knots (405 lbs of crew) -- had a ball, scarey fast w/ chute.



But, then the only boat that has ever bitten me hard is the Nacra 6.0. I've crashed a few but the one on the 6.0 was the worst (3broken ribs, 3 fractured ribs -- same side, cracked cheekbone, jones fracture in right foot all in one high speed stop -- sailor meets sidestay and mast in 25+ winds = sailor looses) Took about two years to get my head straight after that one.



Steve

Steve,



I think that November holds the most promise and I could personally make it work.



I have added the April Florida Races to your timeline., so

When you look at the schedule of distance races.

April M2KL and HB100

May Worrell

June Crac 100

July ?

August ?

September -- rough riders, round the island

Oct ?

Nov ?

December -- steeplechase



Any idea about the classes racing?

Steve,



Tell us about the 'hull baking' thing.



How did you do this?



Where did you get this done?



Bruce



St. Croix

"Baking" a boat only really works when the boat is new. However, I do it once a year to dry out the moisture in the boat due to ocean racing.



First you disassemble the boat down to individual hulls. (you can leave on any blocks but, mounting bolts (for crossbeams and rudders) need to be removed. Also the plugs need to be out.



For a new boat, Vacuum out the hull the best you can.



For a wet boat, Hose out the inside with a 10% bleach, 5% dishsoap solution (kills mold and lifts salt). Make sure that you do not fill the hull -- never have more than about ten gallons of water in the hull. Then rinse liberally with fresh water until it rund clear/clean. I taste test the water just before I stop. If it tastes salty I redo, if soapy I continue to rinse if it tastes like a boats water tank its ready.



Next, place the hull deck down on three saw horses. (I do both hulls at one time places side by side on different saw horses 36inches a part.



Next build a T beam. Basically, four inverted T braces length tall enough to keep the tarp off of the huls with a 2X4 beam running the equal length of the hulls.



Next I use a heavy X army tent as a tarp to cover the whole lot. Note DO NOT LET the tarp touch the hulls. I use the gromets in the tent to tie off the tent to ensure that it doesn't sag on the hulls. Make sure the tent touches the floor around the boat.



Next, I set up two electric space heaters (one at each end about two feet in to the tent). Then I place two floor fans (small-set on low) about six feet in from the heaters and point them straight up. Make sure that nothing electric is under the hulls because they are going to drip water!!!!! This is really important.



Then I turn on the heaters to medium which is about 120-140 degrees and let it run for two days.



NOTE if the boat is new use a milk crate and make a floor vent on one side of the tent to let fumes vent.



The heaters will cycle so you don't have to worry about anything catching fire and I use industrial ones that shut down if they get too hot. (Hell, I bought them at walmart so there not that expensive)



After two days shut off the heaters but not the fans. Let it cool for a day so you don't shock the process but really so you don't burn yourself on anything. Remember everything in there is about 150 degrees.



The next day the boat should still be about 100 degrees when you start taking apart the tent.



Since everything is up on a stand I usually wax the hulls at this time since the hulls are warm the wax goes on easy. For the record I use a teflon based avaition wax made for the Lancair -- you can buy it online and it lasts forever.



After all that just put the boat back together or store it for the winter.



Its a long process but the boats have stayed as new and have not gained any weight over the years.



Steve