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Mast rake #75149
05/15/06 10:15 PM
05/15/06 10:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Good Morning All:

Friday is the day! Picking up the Blade, finally! It's been a long wait.

So, how much mast rake when sailing uni. On the H17, I left the rig very loose. Obviously, these are two very different boats!

Suggestions! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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Re: Mast rake [Re: fin.] #75150
05/15/06 01:39 PM
05/15/06 01:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,120
Eastern NC, USA
T
tshan Offline
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tshan  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Eastern NC, USA
So far, I've left my rake the same Uni vs sloop. Still dialing in the tension, as well. I've been in more light air than anything else, si it is hard to tell.

Matt will set the boat up in a general way that is in the "middle" of the setting range (rake, diamond tension) then you can customize to your weight and condtions.

Much tighter rig on the spi boat and not much rake.....


Tom
Re: Mast rake [Re: tshan] #75151
05/15/06 06:03 PM
05/15/06 06:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
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St Petersburg FL
My settings are very different than what Matt set it at.

Like Tom said, Matt will set it at the happy medium. I do not change any settings between Uni and Sloop. I am not that advanced yet to notice the difference.

I do run a good ammount of mast rake.

Re: Mast rake [Re: Robi] #75152
05/18/06 05:04 AM
05/18/06 05:04 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,632
Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
stillbitten Offline
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stillbitten  Offline
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Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
Hi Pete,

sail the boat as is, then start raking the mast back a small amount at a time, until you have more weather helm than you can handle upwind in 15 kts. with everything on tight. Then put it back to where you don't have to fight the weather helm with the tiller. Where you stand and how tight the leach of the main is, will all have an effect on where this point is. Sometimes I actualy pull the downhaul on to open the leach just because I can feel to much weather helm. My experience is the more rake the better it goes upwind, unlike non spin. cats you don't have to worry about downwind speed the spinnaker looks after that.

Rig tension generaly I tighten it to the point where it starts to effect rotation and back off a touch.

Regards Gary.


Regards Gary.
Mosquito 1830
All opions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone, no assumptions should be made regarding any Associations or Clubs I may be a member of.
Re: Mast rake [Re: fin.] #75153
05/18/06 11:31 AM
05/18/06 11:31 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
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Posts: 1,037
Central California
Quote
So, how much mast rake when sailing uni. On the H17, I left the rig very loose. Obviously, these are two very different boats!


I agree with Gary's approach--I kept raking and kept going faster. You'll point very well. Eventually you get to the raking spot where you've got slight weather helm upwind and (with kite up) slight lee help downwind. That's the sweet spot for me in terms of boat handling.

Keep the rig snug--you need it only loose enough to allow adequate mast rotation. Unlike on the H17, you don't need the mast to lurch forward to help downwind performance because you get to double your sail area. The kite keeps your speed up and the apparent wind abeam or forward.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Mast rake [Re: ejpoulsen] #75154
05/19/06 05:07 AM
05/19/06 05:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 71
S
Stephen Offline
journeyman
Stephen  Offline
journeyman
S
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 71
Eric,

Can you take a measurement of your mast rake. When I get my Blade I would like to start near the sweet spot for mast rake and adjust from there. I had my H20 set up with as much rake as possible. It always provides better performance while racing.

Thanks,

Stephen


Stephen
Phoenix Az
Re: Mast rake [Re: Stephen] #75155
05/19/06 11:05 AM
05/19/06 11:05 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
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Central California
I've usually measured it with the trap wire on relative spots to the Taipan hull. Although our rig is the same, I don't think these measurements will be comparable.

Anyway, if I tie a string to my trap line and bring it forward to the center of the hull at the bridle attachment point, mark the string, then bring it back to see where it touches the center of the hull--it touches just behind my rear beam. In heavier winds, more rake could be used--glenn ashby told me he raked his T4.9 back to have the string touch the middle of the inspection port lid.

Attached Files
76270-picture293.jpg (804 downloads)

Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Mast rake [Re: ejpoulsen] #75156
05/19/06 11:58 AM
05/19/06 11:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe
On my Taipan F16 I rake it back less then That I think the larger head on the mainsail causes this.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Mast rake [Re: Wouter] #75157
05/21/06 12:47 PM
05/21/06 12:47 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1
Netherlands
M
MarcW Offline
stranger
MarcW  Offline
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M
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1
Netherlands
I got hold of the the newest Goodall Taipan F16 main sail with the bigger head and had to the rake the mast forward by 1 hole as compared to the previuous F16 main sail. I am now on the 3rd hole from the top of the bridle tube. Another reason to do is was to have less wheather helm. I feel the sail point on the newer fatter main sail has moved backwards a bit.


Marc Woudenberg Taipan F16 - Ned302
Re: Mast rake [Re: MarcW] #75158
05/21/06 07:06 PM
05/21/06 07:06 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
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Posts: 1,037
Central California
Quote
I am now on the 3rd hole from the top of the bridle tube. Another reason to do is was to have less wheather helm.


That's exactly where I'm at with my Ashby main.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Mast rake [Re: ejpoulsen] #75159
01/17/07 05:37 AM
01/17/07 05:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline OP
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bump

Re: Mast rake [Re: fin.] #75160
01/17/07 01:21 PM
01/17/07 01:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 202
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pkilkenny Offline
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Posts: 202
Hey Team,

For me - (5'10''. 150lbs.), Glaser Fat Head, Taipan, solo :

- Neutral rake ( playing w/ rake sternward you'll sail higher but you'll be slow dragging your rudders upwind at a 30 degree angle).
- 30+ on old style Loos gauge (Fat Head is slow with a bendy superwing mast).
- remove the prebend (sweep spreaders foreward), or else you'll have to derotate radically (again w/ Glaser Fathead)to get competitve height beating (zero power...).

PK

Re: Mast rake [Re: pkilkenny] #75161
01/17/07 04:03 PM
01/17/07 04:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Paul, my diamonds are at 35 on the loos gauge and the spreaders are all the way in. I do not know how many inches of prebend though. What do ya think? I also run zero rake, one or two up. I have noticed rooster tails though, specially when I am hauling butt around the course.

Re: Mast rake [Re: Robi] #75162
01/17/07 05:49 PM
01/17/07 05:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 202
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pkilkenny Offline
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pkilkenny  Offline
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Posts: 202
Quote
Paul, my diamonds are at 35 on the loos gauge and the spreaders are all the way in. I do not know how many inches of prebend though. What do ya think? I also run zero rake, one or two up. I have noticed rooster tails though, specially when I am hauling butt around the course.


Hiya Robi,

I'm not the ideal weight for the F16 one up ( my guess is about 180 - 190lbs. is about optimal in the S.F. Bay Area...).The fat head main has been a great compensatory measure for me and the intended engineering/design of the sail has worked best for me when I : 1. stabalized the lateral bend of the mast (tight diamonds) 2. reduced the prebend (I had my spreaders angled waay back to help with my being overpowered above 12knts.)3. With less prebend (more power), I've had to work in a combination of less rotation to weather and lots of downhall ( again above about 12knts.).Also, rooster tails look cool and are SUPER slow... You're footing without dropping a bit of mainsheet (to weather again) or you're raked too far aft or your body positioning on the hull is not optimal.
Finally, shake off the Tradewinds nonsuccess, we're all learning to sail these boats fast and the occasional butt kicking keeps the dream vivid...

PK

Re: Mast rake [Re: pkilkenny] #75163
01/19/07 03:55 PM
01/19/07 03:55 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Just took this photo--it seems like I've got quite a bit of rake. It has been a fast set up with heavy air but too much helm.

Attached Files

Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Mast rake [Re: ejpoulsen] #75164
01/19/07 09:17 PM
01/19/07 09:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,690
Seabrook, TX
DougSnell Offline
Pooh-Bah
DougSnell  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,690
Seabrook, TX
EJ:

If anything like my old Hobie 16 back in the 80's, when you rake mast back you need to rake rudders forward to get rid of helm.

Worth a try,

Doug

Last edited by DougSnell; 01/19/07 09:18 PM.

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