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Polar Diagrams for beach catamarans?
by Frank N. 05/04/22 07:38 PM
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Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: Jake] #75665
05/25/06 10:25 PM
05/25/06 10:25 PM
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Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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I have been researching line a lot recently and basically you need something with a dyneema core (perhaps blended, but should be "high tech" core) with low stretch. Some recommend pretty pricey line and I am of the opinion that line that costs 2$ a foot (or even 1.50 a foot) is too expensive provided you know where to look for inexpensive line.

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Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: Jake] #75666
05/26/06 05:41 AM
05/26/06 05:41 AM
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Atlanta
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I like the Marlow Excel racing - marlow went out of business, so it might be called by another manufacturers name now, but it used to be marlow excel racing. It has a tough poly cover and a very strong, stretch resistant dyneema core.

The Marlow excel racing cover is rather abrasive and I recommend you strip the cover on the douse line where it will touch the spin during a douse. The core is nice and soft and wont damage the spin.

I'm assuming you dont have a carbon snuffer, but that marlow racing will saw thru carbon pretty quick. I've seen some of the Guck/Tornado type snuffer with some pretty deep groves in them from a line with a poly jacket, like the Marlow excel.

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: PTP] #75667
05/26/06 06:02 AM
05/26/06 06:02 AM
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Atlanta
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Quote
I have been researching line a lot recently and basically you need something with a dyneema core (perhaps blended, but should be "high tech" core) with low stretch. Some recommend pretty pricey line and I am of the opinion that line that costs 2$ a foot (or even 1.50 a foot) is too expensive provided you know where to look for inexpensive line.


Marlow Excel Racing 4mm (5/32) is what I use on my HT spin halyard and tack line. Its a 20sq M spin and it works fine.

Boat US and APS sell the 4mm for .78 per foot.
http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e852.asp

Boat US/West Marine had this stuff on sale recently for .39 per foot.

Make sure you get the Racing, Boat US/West Marine also sells the Marlow Excel Pro which has a poly core. You want the dyneema core, and the jacket on the Racing has a yellow fleck,so look for the yellow fleck in the line.

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: bvining] #75668
05/26/06 06:26 AM
05/26/06 06:26 AM
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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I second Bill comments and want to add that if you have an alu snuffer ring that you don't have to strip the line. For some reason the alu rings don't lead to any wear on either the snuffer or spinnaker itself when leaving the mantle on. Been doing this with a plain spi cloth spi that was never lubricated for 3 years now and wear is absolutely minima. The snuffer itself show no signs of any wear. I do agree that glass or carbon rings are alot more sensitive to wear in this sense.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: Wouter] #75669
05/26/06 06:38 AM
05/26/06 06:38 AM
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Sydney Australia
Berny Offline OP
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Snuffer is carbon! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: Berny] #75670
05/26/06 07:15 AM
05/26/06 07:15 AM
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Atlanta
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Quote
Snuffer is carbon!


Then be sure to to strip the poly cover off the douse line.

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: bvining] #75671
05/26/06 11:19 AM
05/26/06 11:19 AM
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Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
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2017 F18 Americas Site
For a spin halyard I use a 1/8 inch Vectron spliced to a 1/4 inch Conception. The Vectron offers zero stretch while the conception is nice for the crew to work with. It is also nice to see the splice coming down the mast while hoisting so you know exactly how far you have to go before the chute is made. I have the line made so the splice stops right at the swivel block on the mast.

To make rigging the spinnaker easier...do not unrig. I keep my spinnaker in the snufferbag, halyards, tacks and sheets attached. I put the boat on the trailer before removing the spinpole. I cover the snuffer with a bag when I put it in the catbox. The lines dangle out the lid and that is that. It takes me about 2 minutes to put the pole on using caribeeners at the bridle tang. When pole is installed so is the spinnaker.

If you would like an easy way to get your retrieval line through the bag. I use a stopper ball. Tie this to the end of the line after you have laced it through any grommet you need to. Pinch the bag between your index finger and thumb with the ball on the front. Then like a zipper run your pinched fingers to the front and pull the ball attached to the line out.

Later,
Dan

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: Berny] #75672
05/26/06 05:31 PM
05/26/06 05:31 PM
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Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
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Hi Berny,
Ok, I have only read your question and not the replies all others have given so forgive me if my answers mirror , or contyradict, other opinions, also hav opened 5 bottles of wine between 4 friends so forgive spelling?
Is a turning block under the tramp at the eyelet a good idea? YES.
What's a good method for getting the halyard/retrieval line through the sock when rigging? tie to tille rextension, shove through the sock.
Are all windward / leewards port courses? Makes no real differnce if youre using a snuffer.
What's the best tack to be on going into the a. top mark, b. bottom mark, when sailing port hand windward / leewards? makes no differnece as long as you go in fast.
What downwind angles give best VMG with a kite and how best to judge without a compass? as long as you are not upside down you are doing ok. if you`re not flying a hull, you`er not heating it up enough. upside down, youre heating it up too much, can`t fly hull, should ratehr be in pub drinking beerr,
I have a 2/1 tack line which gets the tack out easily but puts a bunch a excess halyard on the deck when the kite is out. remedies? continmuous halyard / tack line, correct halyard lenght, no worries mate.
How are knots to keep the patches apart in the retrieval line tied in during rigging? What ? man you r complicatin things beyond belief.
What's a good measure setting luff tension? if it looks good it is good.
Best jibing procedure? main in, traveller in. concentrate on th ebig sail. gybe angle small, no bnig movenemts.
Best bailout if the kite gets stuck up? Knife? capsize and fix.
Best righting procedure in a ditch with kite up? retrieve kite into sock, right as normal, my record : 3 times in one downwind leg.
If none of this helps hope it at least assd some numour,.

Steve (I think,.

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: Berny] #75673
05/28/06 05:18 PM
05/28/06 05:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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What is everyones preferred sequence of events to take down a spin with a mid pole system?

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: Steve_Kwiksilver] #75674
05/28/06 05:54 PM
05/28/06 05:54 PM
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Posts: 461
Sydney Australia
Berny Offline OP
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Thanks Steve. Good advice and some good humour in there no doubt a result of the vino.
I think I worry too much but I hate not being in control.

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: Berny] #75675
05/29/06 07:01 PM
05/29/06 07:01 PM
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Sydney Australia
Berny Offline OP
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Next question;
Do I need a halyard guide on the front of the mast at the spreaders? I've had no problems sailing but occasionally on the hard, the halyard ends up behind the spreader arm. I doubt there would ever be that much slack on the water but I'm not sure.
I'm trying to adhere to the K.I.S. principle, so if it ain't absolutely necessary, I ain't puttin' it on.

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: Berny] #75676
05/29/06 07:17 PM
05/29/06 07:17 PM
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Bern,
I have had it catch around the back of the spreaders on the water until I just put a line from one side of spreaders to the other and threaded the halyard thru it so it would stop it from going to the wrong side. It did this when the kite was down and halyard not under load. I would find out when it was really hard to pull up.
If you have proctor spreaders you can thread the halyard between the two side arms and the result is the same.
Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: phill] #75677
05/29/06 08:50 PM
05/29/06 08:50 PM
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Posts: 461
Sydney Australia
Berny Offline OP
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Phil, I have the setup such that there is no spare halyard when the kite is down. I've also put a shockcord loaded block under the tramp coming from the back beam which hopefully will pick up most, if not all of the slack when the spi is up. the halyard is under a lot of tension when the spi is up so there isn't any chance it can go astray then, only maybe during dowsing. mmmm If it can it will.
I guess a small string linking the 'Leslie' spreader arms wouldn't be such a huge impost.

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: Berny] #75678
05/30/06 01:07 AM
05/30/06 01:07 AM
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Posts: 461
Sydney Australia
Berny Offline OP
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Done! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Spi questions / discussion [Re: Berny] #75679
05/30/06 05:42 AM
05/30/06 05:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
Next question;
Do I need a halyard guide on the front of the mast at the spreaders? I've had no problems sailing but occasionally on the hard, the halyard ends up behind the spreader arm. I doubt there would ever be that much slack on the water but I'm not sure.
I'm trying to adhere to the K.I.S. principle, so if it ain't absolutely necessary, I ain't puttin' it on.


You could also put a small diameter bunji from the tip of the spreader to the side-stay. That will keep the halyard from wrapping around the spreaders as well.


Jake Kohl
First pics [Re: Jake] #75680
06/15/06 05:26 PM
06/15/06 05:26 PM
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Sydney Australia
Berny Offline OP
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Re: First pics [Re: Berny] #75681
07/09/06 05:34 PM
07/09/06 05:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 461
Sydney Australia
Berny Offline OP
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What a day. Went sailing yesterday to sort a few things and get some hours on the water with the spi.
Got to the rigging area 11.30 (a bit late for winter), with 10/15k of wind as forecast. Needed to rig my new 3mm spi halyard which extended rigging time somewhat but I was finally on the water around 1.30.
No wind!
Drifted for 1/2 an hour then some fluky 2/3k stuff started but it was swinging 90deg, very frustrating. Got a decent spi run in a 5 min. gust then it died again. Not long after that the tackline detached from the sail? (bad knot) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

After a slow trip back to the beach and an equally slow tacking feast back out, I finally got to set the kite again only to discouver that when I had re-attached the tackline (without setting the kite) (blunder) I'd created a huge tangle/twist in the kite. I gave up.

Except for dropping the mast during de-rigging, <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> it was a good day........NOT!

New halyard is great and my recent change to a 1:1 tackline was a success cutting down on residual and making setting and retrieval much smoother. Not all bad I guess.

Question;
At present, because I'm not trapping with the kite, I tie the ends of the spi sheet together which keeps them tidy and on the boat but there isn't enough length rigged this way to trap. I'd need to leave the ends loose which will make it more difficult to locate them during tacks and jibes and keep them on the boat. [I'm sailing single handed].

What do other single handers do to address this?

Last edited by Berny; 07/09/06 06:32 PM.
Re: First pics [Re: Berny] #75682
07/09/06 06:26 PM
07/09/06 06:26 PM
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Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Steve_Kwiksilver Offline
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Don`t give up yet, Bern, the teething problems will go away after a while... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: First pics [Re: Berny] #75683
07/09/06 08:08 PM
07/09/06 08:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
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South Australia
We use a "continuos" line for the spinnaker sheeting Berny the same as for a jib sheet on a sloop rigged boat, knots are messy and a nuisance on the deck at the best of times. Even with adequate sheet length for trapezing with spinnaker there isn’t any real “excess” of line on the deck at other times.

Re: First pics [Re: Steve_Kwiksilver] #75684
07/10/06 02:35 AM
07/10/06 02:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 461
Sydney Australia
Berny Offline OP
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Don`t give up yet, Bern, the teething problems will go away after a while... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Not that I will but the thought has crossed my mind. Considering the impost that comes with running a spinnaker, particularly during the teething period, it would be a reasonable proposition just to give the thing the flick and go back to simple single handed, uni rig sailing. The boat is most definitely encumbered upwind in the lighter winds both in speed and pointing ability, such that I wonder if the off wind gains will adequately compensate.
To be fair it was very lumpy yesterday with plenty of big stinkboat traffic creating lots of big-ish, very short chop. At one stage the spinnaker and sock were full of water. The thing must have weighed several Kilo's. As well, I don't think 14 feet [4.3m] is long enough for busy harbour sailing. Give me flat water anytime.

It's also more difficult for me as I'm doing all the development for this boat, having to address problems most people simply take for granted.

It gets easier I know but I still wonder if it will all be worthwhile.

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