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blade f16 #77751
06/16/06 12:43 AM
06/16/06 12:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 201
Adelaide South Australia
R
ratherbsailing Offline OP
enthusiast
ratherbsailing  Offline OP
enthusiast
R

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 201
Adelaide South Australia
I have been reading all these posts regarding the blade and would like to say it's great for those who can get them i'm in AUS and we can not purchase these boat nor can we purchase plans to build (trust me i have tried) so it would be good if all you other blade oners would refain from telling everyone how good they are and how easly you can get them thanks <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />



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Re: blade f16 [Re: ratherbsailing] #77752
06/16/06 12:47 AM
06/16/06 12:47 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Quote
I have been reading all these posts regarding the blade and would like to say it's great for those who can get them i'm in AUS and we can not purchase these boat nor can we purchase plans to build (trust me i have tried) so it would be good if all you other blade oners would refain from telling everyone how good they are and how easly you can get them thanks <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Whoa, are you saying the Blade plans cannot be had in their own country? No builders in Australia have bought the rights yet from Phill?


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: blade f16 [Re: ejpoulsen] #77753
06/16/06 03:51 AM
06/16/06 03:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
I must say that I'm suprised on both accounts.

I know for certain that Phill has sold Blade F16 Building plans to Aussie homebuilders. I personally know of several names and I have pictures of these boats even.

Are you maybe refering to the Blade F18 design maybe ? Of that type no building plans are sold to anyone, but full preparations for production are ongoing.

With respect to buying the Blade boat in Australia. I don't think Phill has limited VectorWorks Marine in any way (or any other builder) from supplying a boat to anywhere in the world. Just order one and arrange for shipping. I know that Phill has made a point of not limiting sales in this way despite requests of other parties. Boats have even been shipped by VWM to places like Singapore and Pakistan.

Additionally I think it won't be long till a Australian based Blade F16 and Blade F18 builder will hit the marketplace. That is all I can say at this time. Phill himself wrote as much in this earlier reply to you :

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...;Number=64503&page=&vc=1

Otherwise please contact me privately at (see my note in your message box as provided by this forum) and I will help you sort it out.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 06/16/06 04:29 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: blade f16 [Re: ratherbsailing] #77754
06/16/06 04:02 AM
06/16/06 04:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 465
Oxford, UK
pdwarren Offline
addict
pdwarren  Offline
addict

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 465
Oxford, UK
Well, there are VectorWorks Blades in some fairly distant corners of the globe. I've no idea how the Aussie dollar stacks up against the USD at the moment...

Paul

Re: blade f16 [Re: Wouter] #77755
06/16/06 06:22 AM
06/16/06 06:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
veteran
Jalani  Offline
veteran

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
And don't discount Pro-sail Asia! I know that Scott is keen to get to grips with a production run of Blades.......


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: blade f16 [Re: ratherbsailing] #77756
06/17/06 05:15 AM
06/17/06 05:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3
S
Sunsurfer Offline
stranger
Sunsurfer  Offline
stranger
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3
I've been lurking for a considerable time, but cannot let this thread unanswered by me <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Phill is trying to get the boat to production but you still can buy plans from him. Mine is AUS 23, so there must be at least 22 other Blades either sailing or building.
Here's proof of my first hull under construction. Yes, it is in my living room... Too cold outside. I live in Canberra afterall.
Sorry Phill, I have been a smart-butt and not really following the plans. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

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Re: blade f16 [Re: Sunsurfer] #77757
06/17/06 06:15 AM
06/17/06 06:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
You're a bachelor I see. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: blade f16 [Re: Sunsurfer] #77758
06/17/06 07:50 AM
06/17/06 07:50 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Sunsurfer, what is your plan from the point you are at now? How are you going to align all bulkheads and get fair lines when applying skins?
Usually, deviating from building plans are a recipe for a poor (or even disasterous) result if you dont consult the designer. Sorry..

Re: blade f16 [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #77759
06/17/06 05:17 PM
06/17/06 05:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3
S
Sunsurfer Offline
stranger
Sunsurfer  Offline
stranger
S

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3
Yes, I live alone <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Reason why I deviate from the plans is that I'm not confident of my ability to torture the ply into shape. The cold weather plus dealing with gallons of boiling hot water and not enough hands to help pull it into shape scares me. I'm sure for others who can organise a BBQ or gather enough beer to get friends to help, it shouldn't be a problem.

Bulkheads are aligned by the excellent measurements given by Phill. Top and bottom of the mould to be built out of strip planking. Reinforce with fibreglass then measure everything a hundred times and hope that there isn't a twist. Align nails on gunwales, bow and trasom and then wax. Wrap carbon roving 0 and 90 degrees, then vacuum. Glue core, then kevlar roving 45 and 135 degrees, cover in a 0.75oz fiberglass and vacuum again. Remove nails cut hull from mould, reinforce internally, glue the hull halfs back again then fair.

Repeat for other hull.

Much more work then following the plans, not necessary lighter too. Would not recommend this cause of action to anyone else. I just happen to have a pile of roving I could use.

Everyone who is interested to build your own Blade should buy and FOLLOW Phill's instructions. Lots of support from the man himself and a Yahoo group community as well. Highly recommended.

Re: blade f16 [Re: Sunsurfer] #77760
06/17/06 07:52 PM
06/17/06 07:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 201
Adelaide South Australia
R
ratherbsailing Offline OP
enthusiast
ratherbsailing  Offline OP
enthusiast
R

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 201
Adelaide South Australia
I have contacted phil regarding plans and was told he was no longer suppling plans because to many people were getting these plans and not folling instrutions or were modifing for there own needs (not ending up with blades but somthing similar)i have the blade mk1 18 in my back yard and would like to build a 16 my friend has just completed his blade 16 but got his plans and started building well before i dicided to join the fun so what is above is true there are other boat around as for glass boats no moulds have been built yet so this is still a while away



Re: blade f16 [Re: ratherbsailing] #77761
06/18/06 12:24 AM
06/18/06 12:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,479
Thailand
Buccaneer Offline
veteran
Buccaneer  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,479
Thailand
It would be great if they could get things organized ASAP. There’s talk of a new AHPC F16 becoming available early next year, maybe even before the Blade?

Last edited by Flying_Cat; 06/18/06 12:30 AM.

"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." – Ben Bernanke – 2005
Re: blade f16 [Re: Sunsurfer] #77762
06/18/06 12:50 AM
06/18/06 12:50 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Sunsurfer,

thanks for explaining the reason behind your unorthodox building method. I would definately have done my best to follow the designers plans. In worst case, I would have rented a shed/garage and paid some colleges from work to help me out..


If you are comitted to foam strip planking the hulls, you are doing it in a backwards way in my opinion. When stripping, the first thing you do is building a level strongback. Then all "bulkheads"/stations are put in place on the strongback so that they are in the right position and dont move about. Afterwards, it is time to start stripping. Done this way, you can build hulls that are fair and straight with boat strip and pure composites.
In the case of the Blade, you would probably want to do the hulls in halves, as you would never get complete hulls off the strongback. Alternatively, cut stations off the strongback and set it up anew for the second hull.
I suggest you do some research on the internet for "strip plank strongback hull". Look for example at http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/projects/cat/index.cfm
Then, get this book, and read it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0878121668/104-1036315-3892739?v=glance&n=283155
What you are planning to do is similar to the Farrier vertical foam strip system. There is lots of information about it available on-line. E.g. http://www.fram.nl/ (dont be seduced by the vacum infusion technique).


You are starting out on a completely new prototype, and need to do some research and studying before comitting too much time and money. Reading the Gougeon book is the minimum you should do before comitting yourself. If you cant wait until you get the book. Start building a strongback, making sure it is level all the way and will not twist. Then follow the instructions from the Gougeons book. This has been done before, so you would definately be better off using proven techniques instead of striking out on your own. Having a knowlegdeable person look on the laminate plan you are going to use would also be smart.

Sorry for being negative to your approach. It is just that I would hate to see you pour money and time into a project with small chance for a good result. Hope I dont come across as patronizing either (really dont mean to be)..

On the positive side. Building in your living room is not too bad an idea. It is close to home so you dont have to travel, you will be motivated to finish it, you dont have to rent a place etc. Downside is that you are living with your project <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good luck with your project, and please keep us informed!

Re: blade f16 [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #77763
06/18/06 04:19 AM
06/18/06 04:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3
S
Sunsurfer Offline
stranger
Sunsurfer  Offline
stranger
S

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3
Thanks for the hints. If the hulls will truly be strip planked, your way is ideal. However, because it is just the male mould, my "strongback" will really be the keel, gunnwales, and extended stringers. These will "frame" the glued in styrofoam bulkheads while it is being planked. It is really quite rigid at the point. Only thing I worry about is if the epoxy cures unevenly and develops a twist in the mould. The 'planks' will simply be balsa and cheap ply covered with fibreglass. Again, not the best material, but the mould only need to work twice.

Hulls cannot be built in half at this stage because of the tension required to wrap the carbon/kevlar. Same reason why I went for a male, rather than a female mould. Requires the convex shape of the hull to hold it in tension. After all the composite is on the mould, the hull would be sliced into two so as to build the integrated bulkheads. Difficult to explain really. Will post pictures when I reach the next stage.

I kind of feel bummed out if I'm one of the ones who stopped Phill from supplying plans. Granted Phill may feel there is a liability issue if one of his so call home build Blades sink or otherwise perform poorly. However, with enough production Blades out there to proof the design, anyone would know that failure would be the builder's fault, not the designer. The great thing about homebuilding is the infinite ability to customise. Surely that is in the spirit of the formula 16 class isn't it?

Re: blade f16 [Re: ratherbsailing] #77764
06/18/06 02:27 PM
06/18/06 02:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Danny,

You have regular contact with Marcus and lets stick to that.

Home build plans are available through Phill and will remain so.

If Phill has made other arrangements with specific persons then we should not make this exception a proof of some generality. Because that would not be true.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: blade f16 [Re: Buccaneer] #77765
06/19/06 02:46 AM
06/19/06 02:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
They are working hard at setting up the Blades (both F16 and F18) production there in Australia. The Capricorn F16 design is rumoured to be progressing as well.

On the info I have now, of both builders, I think we'll see both of them meet at the F16 challenge in Singapore at the latest.

That would mean that at that time the F16 class will have 4 fully optimized F16 boat builders. In chronological order. Stealth Marine in the UK (Europe), VectorWorks Marine in the USA, Australian Formula Catamarans (Blades) and AHPC in Australia.

I'm not a ranking class official anymore, so I'm saying the next comment as just a private class member, but I feel that the time is coming that we'll do well to again reach out to Bimare in Italy and see if we can have them become the second European builder of F16's. I think 2 builders in Europe will be good for the class and Bimare is strong in the Southern part of Europe.

Yes the F16 class is coming of age !

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 06/19/06 03:07 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: blade f16 [Re: ratherbsailing] #77766
12/04/06 08:27 AM
12/04/06 08:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14
M
Mirjam Offline
stranger
Mirjam  Offline
stranger
M

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14
There are glass, kevlar and carbon Blades available at Dynautic located in the Netherlands. As far as i know they will ship them where ever you want.

Mirjam,
the Netherlands


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