Hey Team .

Doc Poulsen and I traveled last weekend to the 30th annual Commodores Regatta held at every Cali. sailors favorite venue – Huntington Lake ( 15 – 20 kts. sure as daylight, topographical shifts, complex "fingers" of wind velocities, courses that favor risk takers). The races in California are developing into an F16 vs, Acat knife fights w/ very close , intense and tough racing between the A’s ( we call ‘em "potato chips"), and the solo F16’s ( they call us "cheater boats")…I was entering my sixth regatta of the year , Doc pulled his latex gloves off long enough to race for the first time in ’06 and , though I’m finally a bit faster uphill ( thank you Glaser Sails), Doc won the regatta.
Again…

Details and pic’s coming!


Paul

Well, congrats to the Doc! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It's good to hear that the experience in the US is similar to what we're finding in the UK. The more we get out there and mix it with the 'A's, the more we'll get noticed - and taken seriously. "Cheater Boats" indeed!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Actually, do you think they really said "Cheetah Boats" (as in very very fast?) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

PS Why "potato chips"? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Don't you just love it that a class of boats that call themselfs the most advanced and developped singlehander class in the world, were all materials and design features are allowed, are getting crumpy over our "one big compromise" F16's ? Afterall, how far can you develop and optimize a basic glass/alu platform under the condition that it needs to sail well both 2-up and 1-up and a have new price of only 13.000 US$ ?

Humm, on second thoughts, maybe I am beginning to understand why these sailors are getting grumpy afterall ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Wouter

Yes, the A's are noticing us more and more. They're asking a lot more questions..."how much those things weigh? how much sail area ya got?"

Paul and I both corrected out ahead of the A's in most races, but much more relevant is that we were close to beating all of them boat for boat in some of the races. In my best race, I crossed the line less than a boat length after the 1st A. In another race, I was well ahead of all the A's at the bottom mark but made a tactical error and got on the wrong side of the course...ended up just behind the first two A's instead. Paul and I traded spots many time. In fact, in one incident he blasted by me downwind, and looked to have the race in hand...until capsizing and giving the race to me. Paul's new Glaser main has definitely added significant boat speed, both up- and downwind.

Overall I very much enjoyed sailing with the A's because they're good sailors, know a lot about sailing and technology, and won't t-bone you at the marks!

Wouter,

I can understand your avid love of the F16 and want to pump up the class, but I don't appreciate your trashing the A Class. As you know I have sailed and raced an F16. To compare the two is like apples and oranges. When the F16 can compete heads up with the A Class without adding a quasi spinnaker to do it, then you can make a fair comparison. Until then they are two different animals.
To each his own.

Gordon Isco

PS. I got into sailing catamarans to get away from a spinnaker boat and desire to sail with one.

That is right. It is always nice to exchange experiences with them and learn new stuff.

Although I do turn my back when I hear another "I reached the A-mark first, only to be crushed by those unfair spinnakers" again.

As if those tall customized (to skipper weight) carbon masts, extremely high aspect mainsails (long luffs), glued-in carbon beams, stiff full carbon hulls, angled daggerboards and 35 to 75 kg less overall weight don't account for any unfairness on their part !


Since you are basically sailing a 18 year old design with only a spinnaker added against modern A-cats with good skippers I say you did an extremely good job of making that boat go, Eric. I deeply respect you for that.

Wouter

Gordon,

I certainly don't want to project any disrespect to the A Class. On the contrary, the A's are a talent and technological benchmark for singlehanded sailing.

I disagree, however, that they cannot be compared. Obviously, no two classes are the same--that's why they're separate classes. But there is no closer boat to that F16 uni (and sloop, to a lesser extent) than the A class, in terms of technology, performance, tuning, and even technique. Of course the spinnaker makes them different. But until I can keep with the tail end of the A class upwind, I've got room to improve.

When the talent and technology in the F16 class matures, I believe head to head racing with the A class will be fair and fun. In fact, I'm ready to try now, although my boat design is on par with 1990 A class boats.

It doesn't matter how they are made, whatever their shape, colour or configuration is, all of that is superfluous. The only "real" comparison is how well they perform against each other around the race course. Nothing else really amounts to a "hill of beans", and to offer up “reasons” sounds instead, more like “sour grapes” and excuses.
P.S. We have beaten every A class cat that we have sailed against over the line in 3 out of every 4 races that we have had with them over the last 12 months on a (lowly) F14. Does that make us the most technologically advanced and fastest single handed cat in the world today???

We had so much fun with the F16s on and off the water recently in the UK that the A Class association is trying to make sure that we have the next UK A Class Nationals on a day that the F16s can join us for a TT or Nationals of their own. I observed respectful interest in two completely different designs and philosophies that end up at about the same speed; but absolutely nobody being "grumpy" in any way, shape or form. You really are fanning a non-existant flame; the boats compliment eachother beautifully...

Actually I lie, the guy doing the scoring got a bit grumpy about trying to keep track of which boat and which crew people were sailing with from race to race...!

I completely agree with the above. There was a lot of interest shown in each other's boats. It was a really good opportunity to look at how each class had approached or solved an issue. There was mutual respect both on and off the water and I, for one, would welcome every opportunity to share events with the A's.

The grumpy PRO was another issue entirely and was very quickly solved with a few medicinal beers! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

PS Colin we still need a chance to get to swap boats! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Any time you're in the area... I work from home, so am always around if you want to take it out...

Gordon,

I never intended any personal insult to you. Allow me to state that first.

But still I fail to understand how I trashed the A-cat class. It is not like I said anything that isn't true. Claims of the A's being the ultimate singlehander are abundant as you well know. And the other stuff written are all verifiable true.

With respect to apples and oranges, you are correct design wise, but there is a strong argument to be had about who reaches the finish line first irrespectibally of individual design features. It is what was claimed often by A-cat sailors themselfs in the past, at least it was overhere where I sail.

I am truly puzzled in what sense a "quasi spinnaker" is unfair to the A's. Any more then all the fancy stuff on the A's themselfs ? Will it truly be more fair when you can have yours but we can't have ours ?

I also do think it fair to call sailors grumpy when they nick name another design as "Cheater boats".

So please forgive me but I really don't see how I wronged you. Afterall this is the F16 forum and yes we do highlight the strong points of the F16's here, sometimes in direct comparison to other classes. I do recall plenty of similar comparisons on A-cat forums and alike.

You did indeed sail F16's very succesfully and yes I/we would love to see you switch boats now and then in the future. And I/we respect your choice for the A.

Additionally the smiley's in the original posting are a dead give away that I was being sarcastic/teasing our fellow sailors.

Wouter

Come to the Piers race this weekend and / or the Cat open at Grafham in Oct.

There should be no animosity between the two classes, I would rather see a bunch of A cats, or any sail boats, than another Jet Ski going around in circles making lots of noise! I like the A cats because they are technicaly creative. If the F16 class rules were changed, allowing unlimited carbon fiber everywhere two things would happen: the boats would get lighter (faster) and the cost would go way up, more than a $20,000 A cat, because you have to buy 3 sails. So, I would rather see the F16 remain as it is, the cost competitive alternative to the A cat that allows racing either two up or solo. If money were not a concern I would have both. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And how!!

No one boat will fit all. It is a matter of what you want your sailing experience to be. For me I love sailing becuase everytime I go out I learn something new and that challenge of making the boat go better is what keeps me interested. (That and the commraderie and beer) For me I love the F16 because I enjoy sailing with someone else. That and the rush of trying to master a spin downwind. But mastering a fast sail downwind in an A is just as technically challenging just different.

Like Timbo said, at least it is not another jet ski stinking up the area, so no more boat bashing...except maybe for those pig boat F18's <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Matt

Matt & Timbo, My sentiments too.
Wouter, Sorry I didn't understand the smiley face code. I am still in kindergarden as far as computer knowledge is concerned.

I agree, it's about learning (for me) so I'm happy to sail what ever is available, and I'm sure I will learn something from it. One thing I do not like, light air/no wind days. Drifting is not my idea of sailing! I actuall got a tow in one day when the wind died, from a Jet Ski, so I guess they are good for something...but why can't the come up with a good muffler system?? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

They can but it costs some engine power as it takes some effort to push the exhaust gasses out through a proper muffler system. Ergo, it is the first thing powerboat owners take out if they are in the hunt for maximum raw power. And in jet skies raw power ratings sell craft just like motorbikes (another vehical that sometimes could do with a better muffler system)

Wouter

I have see that the motocross racing bikes are all changing over to 4 stroke motors and they are quite a bit quieter than the old 2 strokes I used to race as a kid. Also the new outboard motors are all changing over to 4 stroke motors, they are very quiet and supposed to get much better gas mileage too. I would hope the Jet Ski's would be next to change over to 4 strokes and get rid of that never ending chain saw noise on the lake! Hopefully the 2 strokes will be outlawed pretty soon.

Gordon,

You had me worried there for a moment mate !

Good to see it was just a misunderstanding. And I'll say it ones more, that I to appreciate the two classes moving along side by side. Actually our current F16 class chairman is both a F16 as an A-cat sailor. Sailwave (Colin) said it best, it is indeed very interesting to see "two completely different designs and philosophies ... end up at about the same speed".

Of course some teasing will go back and forth. But that is just common sibling rivalry. Sometimes the A's score a nice point, at other times the F16's do. But I don't think we'll ever let go of one another. We are too much alike in world of overweight boats.

Also it will credit us both when at those times a mark is recognised by a "touche !" of the other side. 45 boats at the Florida A-cat event was your mark. Eric Poulsen fighting for line honours on his Taipan 4.9 with spi against the best A's is our mark.

Personally I really do hope to see more mutual racing/events like the A's at the F16 nations cup and the F16's at the Gulfport Invitationals. Keeps us both sharp and shows the world that there are very nice alternatives to obese boats (F18 ? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) (Notice the smiley ! )

Wouter