Doc,

Why are A cats called "potato chips" in CA? This is not a lead in to a joke (I swear), but he said they are known in CA as "potato chips" and I am not sure why (maybe some vieled reference at being fragile??). I am not trying to debate any boats fragility, just want to be "down with" the vernacular.

I went to the Mississippi coast a few months ago and a lot of people were asking me where the "fragile" sticker was....I thought it was not very funny!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> The same ones asked me where the "panic" button was after I capsized twice. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Not sure about the pototo chips reference.

Sometimes reading Paul's prose is like reading Faulkner's Absalom, Absalom--engaging, entertaining, enlightening, expressive, etc...but the meaning may be elusive.

Those A cats were all out of Santa Cruz, and they're very competitive. Mark Egan sails a large cat for a living (charters). He used to race a Freestyle 474 and spank everyone else on corrected time, so it's amusing to see him on the receiving end of the F16s awfull handicap number. I find it less amusing that my Nacra 5.8 NA has to give the F16s time...

All except Hal Stratton--he sails out of Alamitos Bay YC and regularly races with the Glasers and Melvin, he told me.

I stand corrected. I guess my point is that if you and Paul are beating them across the line, then the F16s are awfully fast boats as - no offense intended - they are probably sailing those A's closer to their potential than you are your F16s.

Was that picture from this year? Was Bob Engelenner out sailing last weekend?

Last year--A class is Jeremy L., also from Alamitos Bay YC and co-designer of the A2. I haven't seen Bob out this year. I happened by his house (going somewhere else) and saw his boat neatly tucked away behind his fence.

As far as F16 potential, I'm sure you're right. Also, I believe it is easier to sail to the F16 2-up closer to its potential than 1-up due to handling the spinnaker.

Please don't mind me saying so I find it personally very satisfying to see that the performance math of 4-5 years ago is winning out over the gutt feelings at the time.

From the beginning, it was claimed (initially mostly be me) that the two classes would be pretty level in overall (around the course) performance, often to be disbeleived and ridiculed.

Especially in the last year or so we see more and more data that is validating these "wild claims" of the past. It appears that the F16 sailors are getting down with the boats.

Great fun !


Ohh by the way, Rhino, I think you are absolutely right. That F16 1-UP rating under PN is a give-away. Please note that alot of us F16's sailors are also saying so for years now. But the rating does not want to converge to a more reasonable rating. Personally I think the F16 sailors should do the honourable thing and assign themselfs a more realistic rating when entering their boats. But that is my personal opinion and it is eventually up to the individual sailors. In Eastern USA I think it has been agreed upon to use the faster F16 2-up rating for the F16 1-up sailors. This is a step in the good direction and more fair to the others. Maybe something similar can be done in Western USA ?

Wouter

I do the scoring for several races, and I'm uneasy with using numbers other than the US Sailing ones. I know the official numbers are not so great in several instances, but I don't feel right substituting my personal judgment, especially when I'm a competitor. If I tweak the F16 number, shouldn't I also tweak the other numbers that I think are off, such as the Prindle 16 1-UP number? Since I'm the best sailor in the world anybody who beats me must have too high a number!

For now, the people really being hurt are Paul and Eric, because they don't have anybody to compare themselves to. They can sail a mediocre race and still win, so it's probably hard for them to tell what they're doing right and wrong, what angles pay off etc. If anything a slightly unfavorable handicap is probably best for developing skills.

If the east coast F16 guys are using the 2-up number, I hope that they are still reporting their class to USS as 1-up. Otherwise the 1-up number will change much more slowly.

I do not believe the east coast 1-up F16 times are being reported as 1-up. Times are only being reported as F16. Darlene (sp?) is calculating F16 times and giving all compliant F16s that number (notice Blade, G-Cat, T4.9 F16 all have the same handicap, F18 operates in the same way).

Following that logic the F16 Uni should be the same as the F16 because it is a F16 compliant design and should carry the same handicap.

We had an initiative to drop the F16 Uni rating altogether from the ratings list. I have let that initiative stall, but will try to rekindle it (or at least make it the same as F16 2-up). Do not read in that statement that Darlene was not responsive (she was responsive and I did not follow up properly).

I personally petition for the F16 2-up rating when racing 1-up, instead of the 1-up F16 rating. Usually, no one cares because it drops the handicap and I believe to be a more fair rating. Most competitors think the 65.2 number is too high, anyway.

I, too, have been using the F16 2-up rating when entering races as a solo.

I LOVE the Acat - in my opinion, it is simply one of the most elegant pieces of machinery ever conceived of by the mind of man...(plus, i'll be trading tacks w/ these guys for the forseeable future)... I never intended the "Potato chip" comment as remotely critical... Infact, when I asked one of the Acat sailors what it was like to sail his 165lb. Acat in the slop and high wind of a typical Santa Cruz, California afternoon he replied with (something like): " ...it's like a cricket sailing a potato chip out there { pointing toward the lake on which we were racing}"... So,the "potato chip" comment is a (damn clever too ), quote by an Acat sailor and not a criticism of the boat by me - a guy who loves the Acat and frankly venerates every sailor in the Acat fleet...


PK

Thanks for clarifying the potato chip thing, Paul.

As for the ratings, I would be okay with converging to just a single F16 rating.

Just for interest, is the A Class called 'A cat' in Europe or is that mostly an Americanism? I've only ever known them as A Class.

I've always known them as A Class too. Makes sense when you've got B, C and D Classes. "B Cat" doesn't really sound right, does it?