| Tacticat goes public #78919 07/02/06 03:45 AM 07/02/06 03:45 AM |
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain aestela OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain | Hi all, This is to announce the general availability of Tacticat ( www.tacticat.com) , an internet simulator for tactical training intended for race small catamarans. Tacticat has been created and tested by cat sailors that race often and supported by ADECAT (the Spanish sailing catamaran association, www.adecat.com). Tacticat is in fact a multi-user game where sailors meet, race, and learn. A big effort has been made to re-create the conditions of an around-the-buoys race, trying to face the users with the same tactical questions they would normally find in reality (which plan for the start, tack now or wait?, take the risk and what if wind changes?, boat-to-boat tactics, etc). Tacticat has been tested for months among Spanish sailors and internationally the last weeks, being played by sailors all over the world and proved ripe enough to the general availability. To sail Tacticat you don’t need to be registered. Just enter and try. Register is only required for those willing to have a boat named after his nick or wanting to keep the points for classifications. Any of you interested to give it a try?, please go to www.tacticat.com, and take a look to the Read-me-first and the FAQ. Just remember that Tacticat is been designed for simplicity and minimum key input. You will be a coach radio linked with the boat skipper, you are not at the helm, your orders will be: navigate by telltales! (space bar), tack! (enter), gybe! (enter) or, less often Up! or off! (arrow keys). Tacticat is a java application with NO USAGE of user system resources and running in a Java sand-box. The only requirement to play is to have an updated version of Java (downloadable from www.java.com or www.sun.com). Internet connection is also a requirement, the game is playable even with 56k modem lines or satellite connections, but don’t expect very good response times in those cases. Tacticat server is located in USA, managed by a New-Zealand company and administered by Spanish cat sailors. Support and questions can be e-mailed directly to tacticat-at-adecat.com (change the at by @). All sailors are welcome (even sailing mono-hulls). We wait you at the races… Amando Estela, Tacticat programmer and the one to blame for the errors (but don’t blame me if you are beaten by the robots, they are dumb but they are many, and a little faster). HC-16 #108034 | | | Current status, news and answers
[Re: aestela]
#78925 07/06/06 04:14 AM 07/06/06 04:14 AM |
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain aestela OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain | Hi, First of all, thx to those of you helping others in the wee spanish hours. It’ starting to work. Beginners don’t read the instructions twice before entering and have a tough first sail, having someone there to give some hints is very useful.
(My wife thanks you too, she was starting to think I was running the Space Station on a critical mission 24 hours a day <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />)
The questions risen lately: What’s the course? Start – A mark – offset mark – leeward gate (enter between) – A mark –offset mark – Finish. If you have doubts, follow the robots…
How rules are managed?. System verifies (tries to, anyway) all collisions, and decides who is at fault. The offending boat’s name turns to black and boat is stopped. It is the users responsibility to make a 360 turn. So, if you don’t know the sailing rules, or not sure, do as you would in a real race: keep clear, and if your name turns black or you are protested, do a 360. If you know the sailing rules, and by any reason you are black-marked but you think you had rights, just go on but, at least send a message explaining to other sailors. There are, and always be, people cheating, may be unconsciously or shy. We shouldn’t be too touchy about that. It is not an honour to win cheating… Just remember there are other things more important that this game.
About Robots. Robots are stupid machines. They have been programmed to be 5% faster. We expect you sailors to be much smarter. Robots are very simple, follow few rules, don’t know about wind shifts…. Try to avoid them and, please, don’t protest them (they are not going to make 360!).
In order to help new sailors in a new regatta field has been opened. It is for starts practice, clock cycles from minus 2 minutes to plus one minute, and restarts. Beginners can work the starts there, aiming to be only a few seconds late on the start line at the start time.
There exists since last week a third sailing field, called training. No regatta there. You get a boat and can try all keys in a plain of water with several buoys.
To all, remember that right-clicking on the boats will give you some info on the boats user (name, country, sailed class…). If you do it in your own boat you can fill or update the info others will see for your boat.
To finish, just a welcome to new users, American but also Swedish, Dutch, Israelians, Belgian, French and Canadians (I sure forget some countries, sorry).
aestela. | | | Re: Current status, news and answers
[Re: aestela]
#78926 07/06/06 07:54 AM 07/06/06 07:54 AM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348 | . . . there are other things more important that this game. . .
Yeah, my wife and sailing my real boat! Other than that. . . ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I'm hooked, to get the rest of this bunch in, announce a cyberegatta! That'll get the competitive juices flowing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> | | | Planning Second World Tacticat Series
[Re: fin.]
#78927 07/06/06 09:05 AM 07/06/06 09:05 AM |
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain aestela OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain | Pete, yes, the Second World Tacticat Series will be held soon. It was initially planned for mid June, but we are delaying it a bit to let people get used to the boats and plan for a really international attendance.
There are several points that remain open: - The entry list. WTS races are open to everybody, but only registerd users (directly in Tacticat site or in an associated site) will receive WTS points.
- The classification system, WTS is held during 2 or three days (24-72 hours). All races with 4 or more boats count. Points are given as usual (6 per user boat + 1 per robot that ended after you). Users keep the 10 best results scored during the 2-3 days. It is not clear if this system is the best. Any ideas?
- Trophys. They are virtual, like the boats. Winner gets the right to show the WTS Cup in his boat during a period. What we are considering is to make a T-shirt also, for the winner. It would be nice to have T-shirts for everybody, but this Tacticat thing runs with no money, no sponsor…, virtual trophys are cheap.
- We are thinking the possibility to nominate national champs, for those nationalities with more than a minimum number of boats. Other classifications might be also possible (attending to geographical, sailed class in reality….)
Well, if there are no better ideas we will soon announce the event. First WTS was a success, but only congregated 30 users/boats from two countries. We hope to make better this time.
aestela | | | Re: Planning Second World Tacticat Series
[Re: aestela]
#78928 07/06/06 09:08 AM 07/06/06 09:08 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | I'm sorry the world is not full of sheep and (if it is) this can only be detrimental to the success of something that is a success already.
Currently I'm programming a whole lot of code that comes with designing a digital controller for a tape storage device. AARRGGHHH But when I have more time in the future I'm sure to check this software out. Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Planning Second World Tacticat Series
[Re: aestela]
#78929 07/06/06 09:34 AM 07/06/06 09:34 AM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348 | Pete, yes, the Second World Tacticat Series will be held soon. It was initially planned for mid June, but we are delaying it a bit to let people get used to the boats and plan for a really international attendance.
There are several points that remain open: - The entry list. WTS races are open to everybody, but only registerd users (directly in Tacticat site or in an associated site) will receive WTS points.
- The classification system, WTS is held during 2 or three days (24-72 hours). All races with 4 or more boats count. Points are given as usual (6 per user boat + 1 per robot that ended after you). Users keep the 10 best results scored during the 2-3 days. It is not clear if this system is the best. Any ideas?
- Trophys. They are virtual, like the boats. Winner gets the right to show the WTS Cup in his boat during a period. What we are considering is to make a T-shirt also, for the winner. It would be nice to have T-shirts for everybody, but this Tacticat thing runs with no money, no sponsor…, virtual trophys are cheap.
- We are thinking the possibility to nominate national champs, for those nationalities with more than a minimum number of boats. Other classifications might be also possible (attending to geographical, sailed class in reality….)
Well, if there are no better ideas we will soon announce the event. First WTS was a success, but only congregated 30 users/boats from two countries. We hope to make better this time.
aestela I'm interested in the associated site. It seems if I "sailed" with people in my own time zone there might be more participation. I like the direct site, but get sleepy at 02:00! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Wouter: This thing is addictive! I believe it is relevant to the serious sailor. I see myself making the same mistakes I make on the water. I'm trying to unlearn bad habits. | | | Re: Planning Second World Tacticat Series
[Re: fin.]
#78930 07/06/06 12:47 PM 07/06/06 12:47 PM |
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain aestela OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain | Pete, associated site is a web site having a direct access to the regata fields and on-line info about the entry lisy. That's all. All regatas are currently hosted in one, unique, server. The regatas are accessed by users entering www.tacticat.com or an associated site, but no difference. Sometimes an additional server has been started at request by a sailing school or during some regatta event to allow LAN access to several users, have rules discussion or make time while the clasifications are made. You want to sail with friends, or people in the same time zone?. Well, that's not a server or tacticat issue, you can do it with the current system. You want to sail ONLY with a group of people you know (sharing class, country or whatever?), no problem, but in this case you have to tell us, to set-up a new field. Currently is just a case of sheer numbers. Tacticat community is, yet, small. And sailing against many boats is much funnier, therefore, no need to divide sailors among different regattas. Based in the statistcs gathered at the server, American people enters when in Europe is, say, 4PM. Up to 1AM European time both communities sail together. From 2AM European time regatas are ALL-AMERICAN up to 7AM. Early morning ei Europe you can find some californians, israelians and first europeans. Do you have an idea to improve things: Say it. (As said in Spain and maybe there too 'I am all ears'). Regards, and see u at the A-mark in company of robots. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> aestela | | | Re: Planning Second World Tacticat Series
[Re: aestela]
#78931 07/06/06 01:05 PM 07/06/06 01:05 PM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348 | I apologize. You have certainly thought this through, better than I! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
No, I don't want to sail with only the people I know. For some reason, I was thinking there were limited boat positions for any one race. How many boats can race at one time?
btw- yes, we have the saying "I'm all ears", also "If it ain't broke don't fix it". Once again my apologies. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by Tikipete; 07/06/06 01:07 PM.
| | | Max number of boats sailing together
[Re: fin.]
#78932 07/07/06 04:00 AM 07/07/06 04:00 AM |
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain aestela OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain | How many boats can race at one time?
We want a race to be completed in 5-10 minutes. That means the A-mark cannot be too far north. That means the start line cannot be too wide (angles to A-mark sholdnt be significantly different from both ends of startline). That means that maximum boats should not exceed a maximum limit. Social regata is currently restricted to 15 boats. There is no technical problem to increase this limit. | | | Rules management at Tacticat Regattas
[Re: aestela]
#78933 07/07/06 08:55 AM 07/07/06 08:55 AM |
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain aestela OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain | (After the events of last night...)
This is a very controversial issue. The subject has been raised many times and we haven’t found an absolute agreement or fully satisfactory solution.
First of all let’s take in account some obvious facts and differences between Tacticat and real sailing: · Tacticat races complete in few minutes. There is no time, from a practical point of view, to engage in lengthy protest discussions. No when verbal intercourse is to be held by means of a clumsy chatting among different speaking people… · There is no committee, jury or responsible actor who can judge the actions. · Computers are not good at judging human intentions whilst human juries can excel at that. · Computers are very good, in fact perfect, at determining physical objective facts (Out-of-line events, boat A acquires an overlap, boat X is tacking,…) · Rules engine programming is the toughest area of all Tacticat computer routines. · There is no safety risk when sailing Tacticat even in the strongest 60kts gale, not for people (they don’t even get wet), nor for boats (a carbon-platinum-molibden-cryptonite ultra strong alloy <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). · Robots have a simple programming, they try to follow the rules but have no capacity to foresee or plan evasions. Have a small set of hard-wired instructions.
From the very beginning we had two possibilities: · Do as in a real race. Try at all cost not to hit another boat, protest when hindered having ROW. Don’t make risky actions like tacking in front or near another boat… Or alternatively, · Don’t try to avoid collisions at all cost when you think you have ROW (rights). Let the computer evaluate the status when collision occurs and black-mark the offending boat. Act bold, for instance tack from port course in front of a starboard boat and expect the tack to be completed BEFORE the starboard boat hits your stern (some of you have already experienced it, Robi? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ).
I can’t say I’m happy but over the time the second option (coined full-contakt Tacticat) has prevailed. So … people usually race according to ALL SAILING RULES EXCEPT RULE 14.
The reasons?. First option is more sportsmanship, more real, but requires everybody to be well-behaved, to know the rules, and someone that can act as jury. Full-contakt Tacticat option is, well, more fun, more aggressive, more easy to put in place for beginners…
This issue is not closed. And sailors racing can always decide on applying strict sailing rules and abide to Rule 14.
To tell the truth, most experienced sailors would like sailing strictly, but we are not restricting access and we find usually together a many times national champion and someone who has never raced before. I, for my self, would like to find the way to make everybody happy. Unsuccesfully so far.
-----------------------------------------------
Another issue is that Tacticat rules engine is buggy. We all know it (or should know it). There is always a risk that you are black-marked and stopped with no good reason.
Well, that’s something we have to live with.
Never had a wrong rules judgement at a real race??? You are really lucky.
Yours, aestela | | | Re: Tacticat goes public
[Re: aestela]
#78934 07/07/06 09:47 AM 07/07/06 09:47 AM |
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 17 Seattle, WA skipper0802
stranger
|
stranger
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 17 Seattle, WA | Greetings All,
This simulator is a must do for all interested in racing tactics, sailing cats, or just having fun. The games puts you at the virtual helm commanding your boat by proxy. A neat feature is the "birds eye view" allowing you to see the course, your competitors, and the weather conditions at the same time. Ever wonder if you're applying your layline to the next mark correctly? You can visualize and practice it here. Not only is the game immensely fun, it allow you to practice all the skills you will need (and then some) in any regatta (or just out by yourself). The game's simplicity is one of it's benefits. No need for fancy hardware or graphics engines, this application puts the emphasis where it should be... the execution of racing tactics to the course and competitors. It's also an excellent way to maintain racing situational awareness during the winter months. I truly enjoyed this site and have returned again and again.
Eric Abbott Former Hobie 16 owner Seattle, Washington, USA
| | | Re: Tacticat goes public
[Re: skipper0802]
#78935 07/08/06 01:34 AM 07/08/06 01:34 AM |
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 3 Logan, Utah JPeek
stranger
|
stranger
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3 Logan, Utah | Very Fun! Well done! Love the Price!
Jon Peek
NACRA 5.8 NA
| | | Some questions answered
[Re: JPeek]
#78936 07/09/06 10:23 AM 07/09/06 10:23 AM |
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain aestela OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 121 Valencia - Spain | If you write a message (intended for all boats or another boat) your message is written in a log file that Tacticat administrators usually read.
Some questions have been asked between users sailing and have been answered either no completed or wrong:
1. My boat name changes color, what does it mean? Red: computer projected all boats speeds and positions and found that you will be hitting another boat next seconds, and you will have no ROW. Obviously computers dont (yet) read minds and cannot foresee changes of mind of other boats... yellow: your boat is being monitored because overlapped and has some restrictions (rules 17 and 17.1) black: your boat has hit another boat, or a buoy, or out-of-line. It is your responsibility to do a 360 turn. (Exceptions: Out-of-line conditions and recovery dependent of commite flag. Buoy hitting not always require 360)
2. Enter an double enter. Tack or gybe with enter, boat will do depending the current angle against the wind. Once the tack or gybe is started pressing ENTER will stop the tack or the gybe(fouled tack). Double enter is when pressing ENTER twice (less than a third of second apart), double enter causes the boat to perform a quick gybe.
Quick gybe is like jamming the rudders crazy. Its quick, true, bat slow to goo deep. You only do it when 360ing or in some buoy roundings (where you have no interest to go deeper than neccesary).
3. Messages sometimes are lost. We know it, its a bug of current version. Sometimes you improve the code to correct some bugs and other things stop working. It will be corrected.
4.Barging at the start line. Before the start shot, if there is a collision of two boats in the same tack and overlapped the computer is instructed to black-tag the windward boat. After the starting shot it is the same, with the exception of boats having aquired the overlap by aft-lee. In those cases the lee boat cannot luff more than its due course (defined in tacticat as the space bar course, going to telltales).
5. Use of mouse Mouse should not be used often!. You use the mouse to: - Regatta management: Rst and Rst2 buttons. - Right-click on a boat, to know about the driver. - Left click, to center the wiewing window where you click.
Notice that hyperspace agrement can be changed by clicking the Hyper-OK box, but it is much better to use the H key.
See you at La Parcela. aestela. | | |
|
0 registered members (),
651
guests, and 108
spiders. | Key: Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod | | Forums26 Topics22,405 Posts267,056 Members8,150 | Most Online2,167 Dec 19th, 2022 | | |