I am looking for a little advice. I am considering purchasing a 1983, 18 foot Prindle. Other than needing a new trampoline, everything is said to be in good condition. I am assuming that most of the lines will need to be replaced too.

We (me, my wife, and our two 10yr old children - figure 450lbs total)) are considering this cat for our first introduction to lake sailing. But I have tons of questions….

1. What should I be looking for when inspecting this 1983 cat?
2. Where can I go for a new trampoline? What is involved in replacing it?
3. On a lake, what’s the odds we are going to go over, and how dangerous is that really? How hard will it be to upright?

The Cat is $1000 with the trailer. Does this seem reasonable?

Thanks so much for any help you can give me. I live in GA and plan to use the cat on a very large lake.

You should check out

http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran.asp

Prindle 18
The Prindle 18 was introduced in 1978 along with the Hobie 18. The Prindle 18 is a very light boat with a large trampoline and is very similar in speed to the Hobie 18 and the NACRA 5.2. The Prindle 18 boasts a good sailing fleet and is an excellent family boat. Simple to operate rudders and no daggerboards mean this is a great off the beach catamaran for recreational use as well as racing! The boat is one of the simpler 18' catamarans to rig.
When looking at Prindle 18s you should consider the following:
• Check the mast for overall condition. It should be free of dents, corrosion, and large scratches.
• The trampoline is better if it is black rather than another color. The black trampolines last much longer in the sun.
• Look at the pigtail wire that runs from the hull inspection port to the jib block. Make sure that there are no broken wires.
• Look at the grommets located in the center of the trampoline just behind the mast. Look for wear spots.
• There is a hull plug located underneath the rear crossbar on the inside of the hull, check to see that it is there and that it is not all dried out. It measures about 3" across.
• The rudder lock down mechanism should be very positive. Go ahead and lock the rudders down a couple of times and test them with your hand by trying to pull them up from the rear of the boat after they have been locked down. Be sure to keep your hands clear of the rudder casting when dropping the rudders on dry land. The rudder should stay in a locked down position until the rudder is pulled very hard.
• Look underneath the hulls to see if there is a lot of beach wear. If you can see the hull beneath the gelcoat paint, that is okay. If you can see fiberglass coming through the brown hull resin, the boat will need a $300 bottom job soon.
• Check at the back of the boat where the rudders connect to the hull. The metal fastener housings are called gudgeons. If there is cracking around the gudgeons, the boat has probably had some problems when beaching. This can be a severe problem so look carefully at the back of the boat.
• Look for worn wires on the mast. Look at the shrouds (side wires) forestay (front wire) and the trapeze wires for broken strands. Also check the bridle wires (very front, attach to bow) for broken strands. Ask the owner when he replaced the wires last. Most manuals suggest a five year maximum life for wires even if they have not been used.
• Look for broken strands in the halyards (lines that pull up the sails).
• Look at the sails for broken battens (solid pieces of fiberglass) in sail.
• Look for tears in the sails. Especially around the batten pockets.
• Check the stiffness of the sail material. The newer the material, the stiffer the sail.
• Check the trampoline for tears or holes.
• Look for areas of discoloration in the hulls. This may indicate a repair of some type.
• Ask if the boat leaks. If so, how much in two hours. A few cups of water are okay, but half a gallon or more is unacceptable.
• Look all around the hulls for gelcoat (paint) cracks. Sometimes this is okay, but if the area around the cracks is soft, walk away and look for another boat! Press on the decks with the palm of your hand and all of your weight.
• Ask the owner of the boat to rig the boat with you the first time to make sure that all of the parts are there. Make sure that you look overhead before you stand the mast to make sure that there are no electrical or telephone wires you may hit. Actually get on the boat and pretend that you are tacking. Move the sails, the rudders, and anything else you would normally operate when sailing the boat.
• Ask the owner why he is selling the boat. How long has it been on the market? Are you the original owner? When was the last time you were sailing on this boat.
• Ask the owner what model year the boat is. Then go to the back of the boat on the right hull and look on the back of the boat. There will be a hull number that will end something like "M79L". This would indicate that the boat is a 1979 model. Make sure that the title that the owner gives to you has a VIN # (hull #) that matches the number on the boat. Make sure that the person you are speaking to owns the boat.
• They must own it outright with no "legal owner" listed. If there is a legal owner listed, you must make sure that the lien on the boat has been satisfied. Simply call the lienholder. Make sure that the person selling the boat is the singular owner and that there are not two names listed on the title. If there are two names, then the other person must also sign off and date their interest in the item. To be really sure that this boat is as it appears, contact you local DMV and County Accessors office. Have the Hull numbers for the boat and the VIN # for the trailer ready along with the owners full name and address.
• Taxes and registration. Ask the owner if he has paid his county tax on the boat for the current year. Call DMV and make sure there are no outstanding parking tickets or other citations on the trailer. If the boat and trailer are out of date on registration, it could be very expensive to get the boat and trailer back to current. The certificate of non-operation slips are much more limiting than they used to be so call DMV to confirm you will not halve to pay the additional registration fees and back penalties due.
• If the owner no longer has or has misplaced the certificate of title(s), make sure you have them provide you with a "duplicate certificate of title" along with $14 per lost title to cover DMV fees and processing fees. Do not give payment in full for the boat until the title has been cleared with DMV!
• You must also get from the owner a "BILL OF SALE" which is a standard document available at the DMV. A home made version does not do the trick. When you arrive at the DMV with the bill of sale you will be assessed State of California Sales Tax based upon the amount paid for the boat and trailer. You must get separate bills of sale for the boat and trailer showing correct hull and trailer numbers. It is payable at the time of registration.
• What additional accessories come with the boat? Beach roller, lifejackets, harnesses, wetsuits or sailing gear, spare wires, pins, shackles? Extras are nice, but add no real value to what you should pay for a boat except for a cat box and beach roller. Does the trailer have a spare tire?
• There are other things to check over and there is no way we can cover them all in this article. If you use this as a fundamental guide and some common sense, you can make a good purchase! Good luck and always wear your lifejacket!
The following is a guide for approximate values of the Prindle 18:
1978-1979- All Colors, complete with trailer and all gear necessary for operation-$1400-1800
1980-1983- All Colors, complete with trailer and all gear necessary for operation-$1500-2200
1984-1987- All Colors, complete with trailer and all gear necessary for operation-$1700-2700
1988-1991- All Colors, complete with trailer and all gear necessary for operation-$2000-3900

On a personal note I own a prindle 18 and love the boat.

The boat is very light and easy to move across the beach. I move it myself all the time while. It is only 335lbs while a hobie 18 is 400lbs. Makes a big difference.

The boat has a lot of bow buoyancy this means it is much less likely to pitch pole than most boats. I have never pitch poled even when out in small craft advisories pushing the boat hard.

The boat has very good fore and aft stability meaning that weight placement is not as critical as on other boats. This means when you are not racing you crew can sit anywhere that is comfortable.


It does have 3 drawbacks.

1. It is hard to tack compared to a boat with high aspect dagger boards. It is not impossible or anything, but it is challenging. If you can tack a prindle 18 you can tack anything.
2. It does not go to weather very well. That is made up downwind and reaching.
3. If you want to race in some areas you have to have a hobie cat. For example were I live, New York, regattas are “hobie only.” I started a racing program at my club that has been pretty successful.


Hey if you need to replace lines on the boat that may be a little leverage to drive the price down.

If you buy the boat make sure you get the rigging guide from the prindle website and read it. It not only shows you how to properly rig the boat, but also how to tune the boat for max performance.

http://www.performancecat.com/manuals/Prindle151618Manual.pdf

Good luck.

In 1985 I think prindle switched to a foam sandwich so a 1983 may be a little heavier than my 1988. I am not sure maybe someone knows for sure.

You can't go wrong with a Prindle 18.

Matt

Matt,

Thank you so much for all of the great information. This is going to be extremely helpful when I evaluate the cat. It sounds like I have a bunch of reading to do!

Thanks again!

Eric

Great boat, mine is 1985 and is my second one. You might want to see if you ever plan on racing, if so, you might want to go with something else, or always be in the open class, which is ok too.
Make sure you get butt buckets, the kids will love hiking out. Mine have been doing it for years.
Not sure of your weight and crew but if/when you do flip over it is very hard to get back up unless your heavy. Myself at almost 200lbs and my son at 100lbs can't do it.
Make sure you have a righting line and you can practice righting it in shallow water.

Good advice from Matt, be careful when backing on the beach,
just last month I broke my rudder and casting and it can get very expensive, almost cheaper to buy a boat.

We have lots of forum members up in that area so you might hear something from them.

Good luck and have fun.

Hi Guys,

jumping on to the end of this post on an 18, I am hoping to go and have look at a Prindle 19, UK boat 1991 in the next couple of days. I would imagine the comprehensive advice given will also hold true for a 19(?). Anything else on top of that to look for?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. She is on original sails and tramp with road and beach trolley for a reasonable price.

I am new to the list/forum. I don't know what the score is on the forum as I am used to falconry forums, where you are expected to introduce yourself,

I am returning to sailing after a 15 year absence from racing monohulls but am about 220llbs (most of it on the shoulders but a smidgeon on the stomach<g>) and intend to leisure sail it and then eventually race it, once I have got the skill levels back up and either force fed my daughters to a suitable weight or recruited a willing victim (crew) from my local sailing club.

regards

Pete

Prindle 19
This represents one of the most exciting boats ever built by a production boat manufacturer. The Prindle 19 is one of the fastest production boats in the world and is only surpassed by larger multihulls and some of the exotic "speed machines" developed for speed trials. The Prindle 19 has been around now for about six years and has one of the fastest growing fleets in the country. Patterned after the Tornado, the Prindle can be trailered flat on a trailer and has the maximum allowable width on California Highways at 8'6. The fine entry of the bow slices through the water very quietly and makes this an outstanding flat water boat. The Prindle 19 has quite a strong racing record to back it up. In 1985 the Prindle 19 won the Worrell 1000. In 1987 the Prindle won the Pacific 1000 and its record this year has been quite strong as well. In head to head competition the Prindle 19 defeated the new Miracle 20 from Hobie Cat boat for boat even though the Miracle was flying a spinnaker and the Prindle was not! Steve Rosenberg was first across the finish line for all of the boat competing in this fun race! Steve skippered the boat in Cat Fight that took place in early September in San Diego. Steve had never sailed a P-19 before but he thought that the boat performed well! With a class minimum crew weight of 325 lbs, the Prindle 19 offers you performance with crew eights well into the 400 lb range. The boat weighs a mere 385 lbs all up and can be easily carried down a beach by a couple. The Prindle 19 takes a spinnaker quite nicely and performs best reaching and downwind. This is a legal boat for all PRO races and CPSA OFFSHORE events.

When buying a Prindle 19, there are some things to check for:

*

Check the mast for dents, scratches or bends. Sight up the sail track to check for bends.
*

Does the boat have mylar or dacron sails? Dacron are good for having fun, but the mylar have proven to be the tip for going really fast.
*

Does the boat have a four way jib system on it? The system comes stock, but some owners opted to remove it for fun sailing. You will need this to go racing.
*

Has the boat been weighed recently? If so, how much did it weigh? Most boats are 385-395 lbs but there have been a few coming out over 400 lbs. If you want to race, do not buy an overweight boat.
*

Push on the decks in front of the main crossbar. There should be some flex, but the deck should not feel "soft".
*

What color is the trampoline? If the tramp is black that is very good. If it is blue you will probably need to replace it in a couple of years unless you cover it.
*

What type of downhaul system does it have? There should be swiveling cleats at the base of the mast that are either made by PYF or by Harken. I prefer the PYF because it is lighter, but the Harken is very good as well.
*

How is the rotation control set up? If the owner has installed a rotation control system that is after market, take a look at whether it goes under the trampoline. Some systems work well, others are a nightmare. Ask the owner for a working demonstration.
*

What type of mainsheet system does the boat have. The Prindle 19 needs an 8:1 purchase mainsheet or larger to be really fun to sail. This system should be a low profile system if possible. (See your dealer for an example) The mainsheet system should be made by Harken.
*

Are the lines color coded? They should be. There should not be any two control lines on the boat the same color. What kind of lines are they? The owner should be able to tell you who makes the ropes. The ropes are very different in quality and you can not just get something that looks pretty, it needs to be high quality, pre-stretch line for the control lines and be soft low stretch line for the sheets.
*

Has the trampoline been modified? It is nice to have a larger pocket on the trampoline than what come s stock from the factory. Semi-circle and square pockets with velcro are the best.
*

Has the forestay been modified? If there is a quick release type hook on the forestay, you are going to need to replace this item before you go racing. The bridles will also have to be changed if the forestay has been changed.
*

Are there notches cut into the rudders? If there are, you will have some fiberglass work to do before the boat is competitive.
*

Is the traveller post stock, or has it been changed? Hopefully it has been changed. Only the new boats have a really high quality traveller posts as stock equipment. One of the new style posts can be retrofitted to the boat.
*

Does the traveller car have metal wheels or plastic wheels? The rollers on the new boats are all metal and roll much easier than the old style cars. The new cars also have roller fairleads for the traveller sheet. A new style car can be retrofitted if necessary.
*

Does the boat have a jib luff control? (Downhaul for the jib) This should be accessible from the trampoline area. This system allows you to vary the jibs shape when racing.
*

Does the boat have foot straps for reaching? These should be made of fabric and definitely not of rope covered by plastic. The rope system has been responsible for broken bones in the feet of the skipper! If the boat does not have these, they can be easily installed. They are fairly important if you plan to race offshore.
*

The rudder lock down mechanism should be very positive. Go ahead and lock the rudders down a couple of times and test them with your hand by trying to pull them up from the rear of the boat after they have been locked down. Be sure to keep your hands clear of the rudder casting when dropping the rudders on dry land. The rudder should stay in a locked down position until the rudder is pulled very hard.
*

Look underneath the hulls to see if there is a lot of beach wear. If you can see the hull beneath the gelcoat paint, that is okay. If you can see fiberglass coming through the brown hull resin, the boat will need a $300 bottom job soon.
*

Check at the back of the boat where the rudders connect to the hull. The metal fastener housings are called gudgeons. If there is cracking around the gudgeons, the boat has probably had some problems when beaching. This can be a severe problem so look carefully at the back of the boat.
*

Look for worn wires on the mast. Look at the shrouds (side wires) forestay (front wire) and the trapeze wires for broken strands. Also check the bridle wires (very front, attach to bow) for broken strands. Check the diamond wires as well. Ask the owner when he replaced the wires last. Most manuals suggest a five year maximum life for wires even if they have not been used.
*

Look for broken strands in the halyards (lines that pull up the sails).
*

Look at the sails for broken battens (solid pieces of fiberglass) in sail.
*

Look for tears in the sails. Especially around the batten pockets.
*

Check the stiffness of the sail material. The newer the material, the stiffer the sail.
*

Check the trampoline for tears or holes.
*

Look for areas of discoloration in the hulls. This may indicate a repair of some type.
*

Ask if the boat leaks. If so, how much in two hours. A few cups of water are okay, but half a gallon or more is unacceptable.
*

Look all around the hulls for gelcoat (paint) cracks. Sometimes this is okay, but if the area around the cracks is soft, walk away and look for another boat! Press on the decks with the palm of your hand and all of your weight.
*

Ask the owner of the boat to rig the boat with you the first time to make sure that all of the parts are there. Make sure that you look overhead before you stand the mast to make sure that there are no electrical or telephone wires you may hit. Actually get on the boat and pretend that you are tacking. Move the sails, the rudders, and anything else you would normally operate when sailing the boat.
*

Ask the owner why he is selling the boat. How long has it been on the market? Are you the original owner? When was the last time you were sailing on this boat.
*

Ask the owner what model year the boat is. Then go to the back of the boat on the right hull and look on the back of the boat. There will be a hull number that will end something like "M79L". This would indicate that the boat is a 1979 model. Make sure that the title that the owner gives to you has a VIN # (hull #) that matches the number on the boat. Make sure that the person you are speaking to owns the boat.
*

They must own it outright with no "legal owner" listed. If there is a legal owner listed, you must make sure that the lien on the boat has been satisfied. Simply call the lienholder. Make sure that the person selling the boat is the singular owner and that there are not two names listed on the title. If there are two names, then the other person must also sign off and date their interest in the item. To be really sure that this boat is as it appears, contact you local DMV and County Accessors office. Have the Hull numbers for the boat and the VIN # for the trailer ready along with the owners full name and address.
*

Taxes and registration. Ask the owner if he has paid his county tax on the boat for the current year. Call DMV and make sure there are no outstanding parking tickets or other citations on the trailer. If the boat and trailer are out of date on registration, it could be very expensive to get the boat and trailer back to current. The certificate of non-operation slips are much more limiting than they used to be so call DMV to confirm you will not halve to pay the additional registration fees and back penalties due.
*

If the owner no longer has or has misplaced the certificate of title(s), make sure you have them provide you with a "duplicate certificate of title" along with $14 per lost title to cover DMV fees and processing fees. Do not give payment in full for the boat until the title has been cleared with DMV!
*

You must also get from the owner a "BILL OF SALE" which is a standard document available at the DMV. A home made version does not do the trick. When you arrive at the DMV with the bill of sale you will be assessed State of California Sales Tax based upon the amount paid for the boat and trailer. You must get separate bills of sale for the boat and trailer showing correct hull and trailer numbers. It is payable at the time of registration.
*

What additional accessories come with the boat? Beach roller, lifejackets, harnesses, wetsuits or sailing gear, spare wires, pins, shackles? Extras are nice, but add no real value to what you should pay for a boat except for a cat box and beach roller. Does the trailer have a spare tire?

There are other things to check over and there is no way we can cover them all in this article. If you use this as a fundamental guide and some common sense, you can make a good purchase! Good luck and always wear your lifejacket.

The following is a guide for Prindle 19's used
Update: 5/15/93
1985-1986- All colors. Dacron sails. Trailer and all gear to go sailing: $1500-2400
1985-1986- All colors. Mylar sails. Trailer and all gear to go sailing: $1750-2500
1987-1988- All colors. Dacron sails. Trailer and all gear to go sailing: $1800-2900
1987-1988- All colors. Mylar sails. Trailer and all gear to go sailing: $2500-3000
1989- All colors, mylar sails, tape stripes, complete boat and trailer: $3000-3500
1990- All colors, mylar sails, tape stripes, complete boat and trailer: $3200-4300
1991- All colors, mylar sails, , complete boat and trailer: $3500-4500

I am also considering the purchase of a Prindle 18. It is a 1979 in good condition with a trailer. It is sold by a boat dealer so it is not a private sale. I'm concerned with the price. They are asking for $2,500.
The price range from www.sailingproshop.com shows 1400 to 1800 but it's not clear how old these prices are. Some of the other models have a "last updated" date. Sometime in the early 1990's. Anybody know the value of a 1979 Prindle 18 in good condition with no known problems?

I just bought an '87, which had been sitting for a long while, I'll share my experience so far.

I was told the boat was "ready to sail" and it included just about everything - harnesses and PFDs in addition to the trailer. Ready to sail was purported to mean, go to the beach, step up the mast, and sail away.

It was rigged, but everything was algae stained and rotted, cleats frozen up, etc. So I spent a good bit of time re-rigging, plus new trailer lights. When all was said and done, probably another $400 in addition to the boat.

The hulls are quite solid, but I made the mistake of not checking the bottoms of both hulls. Very strangely, one is heavily worn from what seems like repeated beach landings, while the gelcoat isn't even scratched on the other. I'm not sure how the PO managed that.

I paid $2500 for mine, which, in retrospect, was probably a little on the high side. I have seen several since which are going for ~$1500, which, if they are in the advertised condition, are much better deals. Unfortunately, I travelled a few states away to buy mine, and for various reasons didn't have the time or daylight to inspect as well as I should have.

I agree with the comments about righting the boat - I had a P-16 many years ago, and was able to right it by myself. There is no way I can do that with the P-18, and I'm getting ready to rig a pole and purchase a bag.

I would imagine the price of a new boat P18 in in 83 was about 3500 for the boat... the Trailer about 6 to 8 hundred for a galvanized trailer. back in the day. (based on what I paid for an 18 footer in 1987.

2500 without a sailbox (hard to find a solid one) seems very steep They certainly go their money's worth. 1000 to 1500 is much more reasonable.

But the availability of solid boats of that era is decreasing. Hobie 16's of that era should be going for about 500...

Sometimes... the parts value of the boat is worth more then the boat... BUT... they have to be able to sell the parts as well.

The rec sailors I know who traded up from a P16 to a P18 were not as happy because they sailed mostly solo and the P18 was not rightable and tougher to move on the beach. He traded back down to a P16 a year or two later.

good luck

Matt, I've got news for you. 335lbs is heavy. 400lbs is very heavy.

My HT is 265 lbs
My A cat is 160lbs

Both are 18ft long

I picked up my A cat platform and balanced it on my shoulders/head and walked it across a 50ft footbridge a couple of weeks ago.

Thats very light.

Bill

Willo
most 19's are pretty good bargains at the moment as the class is not very active on the racing scene. they do make good club/fun boats though.
If you need any parts for the boat, give Don Findlay a ring [shropshire] as he will have supplied it new and still has a shed load of bits and pieces.
Whats the sail no? mine was 596.

Paul

You may have overpaid a bit, but it is not as bad as mark makes it out to be. If it is in very good condition then you may have gotten your moneys worth. It’s done now time to enjoy the boat.

Everyone who has a P18 I know has the same 2 complaints it is hard to tack in chop and you can’t solo right without a water bag. Besides that I have heard/experienced nothing but great things. I move my 330 lb P18 through soft sand alone all the time with no problems. The hobie 18 and F18 are 70lbs heavier and it really makes a difference.

Post any questions and read the manual/tuning guide I posted earlier.

Matt

WOW - $2500 for a '79??? If you are up for a drive - I've got a deal for you.

Trailer and 1979' P-18 in very good condition, garage kept, new tramp, new standing rigging, firm hulls, righting stick AND extra replacement parts from an a 1980 P-18 including port hull, boom, main, jib, rudders blades, rudder casings, tiller system - all for $1500 firm!!!

As garage is 100 feet from the lake, purchase includes boat orientation. Set up, take down and a trial test ride (I need to take one more ride before I see her go).

I hate to see her go, but now I spend all my time on a smaller lake and on a smaller cat (Nacra 5.0).

Dan
Oneida Lake, NY
20 miles NE of Syracuse

These reviews are very comprehensive...but I had to laugh.



A couple of what? Gorillas?

Dan - yeah, I saw your ad...and I really think it would've been worth my while to come up there, but I found mine in southern NJ. Yours would have been a better deal.

Flatlander - I found that my 100# GF and I had a rather difficult time alone pulling the boat up and down the beach - it was OK with another guy my size. Gorillas is about right. I will be biting the bullet and picking up cattrax before the next beach trip.

Dan,

I'm interested. You can email me with your phone number and best time to call and we can discuss further. If you have pictures, send them too.

Thanks
Martin
mberthia@yahoo.com

Matt, you seem to be very knowledgeble on Prindle cats. I have a 1995 P19 that I bought new and have treated well. I do notice a couple of cups of water in the port hull after sailing for 2 hours or more. The wind strength and conditions don't seem to alter the amount of water I sponge out after I sail. Where would you recommend I look for the leak? Thru hull fittings for the trapeeze wires?, Inspection port caps?, Gudgeon attachment points? Nothing is obvious at this point. Thanks Greg