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Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: Wouter] #81551
08/16/06 01:53 PM
08/16/06 01:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
WillLints Offline
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But it's packaged in card board. 215 kg (x) 2.2 = 474 lb.'s..?
It's coming without jib or jib rigging and one kevlar layer, but still......maybe someone is being nice to Vectorworks.


Will_Lints
one-up, Blade 706, epoxy bottoms
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Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: Darryl_Barrett] #81552
08/16/06 01:59 PM
08/16/06 01:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 18
tikoes Offline
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Bathroom scales are very sensitive to the positioning of the weight, despite overly optimistic devaition which is often indiacted on the scale. Depending on your method (1, 2,4 scales) you may be outside the region where the scale is accurate or has a linear reponse. When using multiple scales the absolute uncertainty of each reading adds to the total uncertainty, so your measurement can be off by several kg's.


Tikoes FX One 203
Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: tikoes] #81553
08/17/06 03:39 PM
08/17/06 03:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
WillLints Offline
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Well, my Blade arrived yesterday about 1:15 and after inspecting the shipping containers I figured I should open the boxes to see if there was any damage, completely forgetting about bathroom scales and leveling boxes and shipping weight. I was like a ten year old at Christmas opening box after box and carefully inspecting all the beautiful hardware, hulls, blades and boards. There is a dimple in one of the hulls which has an outer layer of kevlar so I don't know it is significant.

Attached Files
83547-Dimple10.jpg (130 downloads)

Will_Lints
one-up, Blade 706, epoxy bottoms
Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: WillLints] #81554
08/17/06 05:23 PM
08/17/06 05:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 443
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
bobcat Offline
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Is that dimple on the port hull just forward of the front beam? I have the same sort of thing.

Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: bobcat] #81555
08/17/06 05:49 PM
08/17/06 05:49 PM

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Is the dimple an inny or an outy?

Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: ] #81556
08/17/06 06:20 PM
08/17/06 06:20 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Mark P Offline
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Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
How does a a sensible thread relating to the exact wieght of a bladder get turned around into where your dimples are? Have we all gone mad.


MP*MULTIHULLS
Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: Mark P] #81557
08/17/06 07:10 PM
08/17/06 07:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
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I once had a dimple on my bum from a badly placed fitting on a mono-maran, does that count?

Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: Darryl_Barrett] #81558
08/17/06 09:05 PM
08/17/06 09:05 PM

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My comment was serious (even if the terminology wasn't). An inwards dimple on a brand new boat usually means that the mould is damaged or something has been dropped on it at the factory. While an outwards dimple could also mean mould damage, it could also be an early sign of delamination which could be a sign of something far more major. Are they using Epoxy or Polyester resin resin?

Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: ] #81559
08/17/06 09:44 PM
08/17/06 09:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
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It wasn't sarcasm Scarecrow, its called "humour" sorry if it offended

Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: Darryl_Barrett] #81560
08/17/06 10:26 PM
08/17/06 10:26 PM

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I'm very thick skinned Darryl, it takes a lot more than sarcasm to make me cry (or even confuse me for that matter), I was trying to bring the conversation back to my question so I could find out the answer.

Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: ] #81561
08/18/06 04:35 AM
08/18/06 04:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline
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Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Don't you have to officially weigh your boat like you do with an F18 (to get an F16 rating)? If anyone has competed already in official races, someone should be able to tell us how much a Blade weighs ....

Ragards,
Gill

Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: WillLints] #81562
08/18/06 06:38 AM
08/18/06 06:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Is is between the beams ?

If so I wouldn't worry too much about it. I'm sorry to see a dimple in your new hulls, that is for sure. But if it is between the beams then the loading in that area will not be such that the dimple is of any major significance. In this case just go sailing and regulary check the area around it, keeping an eye on it. If it ever delaminates then I feel the repair is straight forward enough. The specifics of the repairs in not my speciality, but quite a few people then just drill a small hole in the outer class layer and inject some epoxy resin to retore cohesion between the class layer and the compressed foam. But a professional repair is always an option as well. Personally I've seen many boats with such dimples last for years and years as long as the area around it feels solid (no delamination present).

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: ] #81563
08/18/06 06:40 AM
08/18/06 06:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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I think there are using Vinylester resin.

See : http://www.vectorworkssail.com/f16.html


Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 08/18/06 06:41 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: Gilo] #81564
08/18/06 06:49 AM
08/18/06 06:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe

Currently the European F16's need to have either a Texel or a SCHRS measurement performed before entering official races.

The new F16 governing council is working on getting a world-wide measuring protocal into place. In the later stages of my class chairmanship I discussed this with the new chairman and he had progressed significantly on the issue. I don't know the status of this project at this time. I'm sure we'll hear more about it.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 08/18/06 06:50 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: Wouter] #81565
08/18/06 08:16 AM
08/18/06 08:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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It is anticipated that the final version of the measurement forms and guidance, to be read in conjunction with the rules, will be issued early in Sptember 2007. At that time the F16GC will also announce the name of the Chief Measurer for the F16 Class.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: ] #81566
08/18/06 12:02 PM
08/18/06 12:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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This may be slightly off topic…

For a sailing community who is always complaining about the lack of interest in Catamaran sailing...it seems one would be a bit more thoughtful about what one said about a new boat design/boat builder (Vectorworks is not new to boat building by any stretch of the imagination but new to this market). Especially when facts are in short supply.

Do the writers of these jabs have any concept of the level of expertise that Vectorworks commands? Go to their main web site and take a look... http://www.vectorworks.com/

This is just my opinion... It seems to me that Vectorworks is benefiting the catamaran community by offering fresh products here in the US utilizing their state of the art engineering and manufacturing...their time/energy/resources could be more financially rewarded being utilized for manufacturing products other than small sailing catamarans...One look at the VW Blade and you can see it is a beautiful execution of a beautiful design. Over stating little glitches in hardware and such (that plagues every boat that has ever floated in water) gives a false sense of quality issues.

Before someone makes a federal case out of a “dimple”… Will… call Vectorworks and give the manufacture a chance to address the problem… otherwise it will get all blown out of proportion on the internet by people making everything from “educated” to “wild butt” guesses based on incomplete information.

Regards,
Bob

Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: Seeker] #81567
08/18/06 05:45 PM
08/18/06 05:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Just been pointed out to me that there is a typo in my post:

Quote
It is anticipated that the final version of the measurement forms and guidance, to be read in conjunction with the rules, will be issued early in Sptember 2007.


Should, of course, read ........September 2006.......

Sorry!


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: Mary] #81568
08/18/06 06:46 PM
08/18/06 06:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
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East Gippsland, Australia
Sorry Mary. I didn't see your question.

The Mosquito was 92kg. That's cat rigged with spinnaker. My platform is actually 10 years old and 2-3kg over the minimum allowed so I would expect the new Mosquitos to be just under 90kg sailing weight.

Just by the way, most foam/kevlar Mosquitos have corrector weights to bring them up to weight. Some as much as 5kg. Minimum platform weight is 55kg.


Tim Shepperd
Mosquito 1775
Karma Cat
Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: Seeker] #81569
08/18/06 09:42 PM
08/18/06 09:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
WillLints Offline
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WillLints  Offline
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Posts: 98
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
Sorry, I didn't mean to start anything about Vectorworks. The "dimple" is an inny, 2 feet ahead of the aft beam and 1 foot down from the tramp guide. There is a mark in the cardboard packaging corresponding to the location of the dimple. Matt McDonald said, "IF the dent is just an imprint with no cracking of the laminate around it, then there is no structural issue with the hull". I was glad to hear or read that as I would hate to repackage my Beautiful new Blade sailing catamaran and subject it to another trip across the country. I am looking foreword to the day when the trailer is done and the boat is assembled and I am gingerly sliding her into the local lake for her first sail.
Will


Will_Lints
one-up, Blade 706, epoxy bottoms
Re: Anyone weighed the VM Blade? [Re: WillLints] #81570
08/19/06 07:17 AM
08/19/06 07:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline
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waynemarlow  Offline
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W

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
All manufacturers survive or die by the quality of their produce. If your new car arrived with a dent in the front fender would you accept it, certainly not, if it failed by having been supplied with a poor engine would we not hand it back to the nearest dealership. Why then do we accept poor workmanship / poor quality fittings etc from catamaran manufacturers when in truth the total cost of our new cat is probably more than the new car towing it to the beach.

If the hull was damaged in transit then ask the fowarding company to have the damaged area repaired, you after all purchased a " new " boat and would expect its condition to be that.

We must also be careful to not hide faults from other prospective buyers of cats as this forum should be totally unbiased and should be a " free " discussion totally independant of the manufacturers.

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